2022 Oregon Archery Elk Proposal

[Michael Rankin]

If they bow hunt 4 out of 5 years because they can't draw a rifle tag, are they bow or rifle hunters?



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Bow in hand+archery tag in pack+out hunting=bowhunter

I somewhat get what he is saying. ODFW created a system that created this issue. Hunters want to hunt. The first time you go hunt, it either gets in your blood or doesn’t for the most part. For me and most guys I know bow hunting is the same, it gets in your blood.

They have forced hunters to switch over to a weapon they likely wouldn’t have switched to otherwise. They are hunters, and bow hunters.

Im pretty confident if the choose your weapon type of draw were implemented, they would just pick the archery tag to hunt more often.

The hunters are going to follow the path of least resistance to get tags as often as possible I believe.

It looks like across the west demand is growing for all these tags. If the animals herds can’t take the increase, controlled draws or capped first come first serve tag numbers seem to be a simple answer.

Under the Oregon proposal the draws are only on the east side. If the west side is going to remain as a OTC general archery zone, they should probably have a cap on resident and non resident tags sales for that general tag. More and more people are not getting a tag each year in all the various states , and will just follow the path of least resistance to the next available tag. This just moves the over crowding or over harvesting problem around, but doesn’t solve it.

 

[mtbowhunter]

I’m all for it and I can’t understand why other bowhunters aren’t excited about this. All jokes aside, if I was still an Oregon resident I wouldn’t be too excited but in the long term it will pay off. It will help populations in the proposed controlled units, make people actually use their points to relieve the horrible point creep and relieve pressure on the elk. Sure, the OTC pressure will be transferred to other units in the short term, but within 10 years the number of total preference points that will be in the system will significantly less. This allows for more opportunity for quality hunts, giving folks an actual reason to burn their points every couple years, instead of holding out for one of the 5 quality controlled hunts.

Call me crazy, but it’s about looking at the bigger picture and trying to match the strategies that have actually worked in other states. Producing higher bull quality, higher hunter success and an overall better hunting experience without tight lipped bulls throughout the month of September.


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[BRTreedogs]

Lastly a lot of this is not addressing what I think is a more serious problem in Oregon, which is the predators. Until ODFW allows more liberal tag allocations, for bear in particular, the herds will never reach their potential. Roughly 10% of archery hunters kill one elk a year, often less in Oregon, meanwhile 100% of bears will kill multiple fawns and calves every year.

So I blasted Odfw at a meeting on this and he made me feel like a fool.
I basically asked why we don't just reclass bears as vermin shoot on sight.
He said we're barely even hanging onto a spring season.
That they do not want to give the antis any more ammo as they believe it will lead to a law change like hound hunting and there hands will be completely tied. We will loose all bear hunting.
CO has set the precedence.
They also meantioned there is virtually no hunter presence at the Commission meeting.
2 hunters at most.
But the antis show buy the dozens. And put on a really show. Balling there eyes out and physically throwing themselves on the ground huge adult tantrums about saving the animals and banning hunting.
Sure hunters may send alot of emails when this comes up. But he said in person what the commission sees is 99.9% against hunting.

Thats also my point in limiting opertunity there are alot of us that will quit or move out of state if we can only hunt every 4-5 years. Then who is gonna stand by your side against these antis.
If they have already made me feel hopeless in drawing a tag what do I care?

 

[Extrapale]

They should have the commission meeting in the evenings when us folks with job can attend.

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[BRTreedogs]

They should have the commission meeting in the evenings when us folks with job can attend.

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At least it is before Archery season this year

 

[FOG]

We need to stop this nonsense.. or it will all become draw If we don't then YOU will not get to hunt for 3-5 years as you pay for points and buy useless hunting license. (so not just $8 draw fee after all, huh ..
For all the cry-babies who complain about "my unit is over-crowded" why don't YOU not unit that unit?? yeah, thought so, its the other hunter that's the problem..
Comparing archery to rifle .. not real, as the survey only asks archery what unit did you hunt in most, that's allowing over sampling of those who may of "stopped" in a unit, then got closed out of their primary west side hunting grounds. I was a east side hunter living in the west who got closed out of hunting so many years on west side, just gave up and spent weeks and tons of dollars to travel and hunt on east side, as the coast is not my cup of tea. I do not see NR as a problem, numbers are too small to matter.
If it must be a "draw" , go eastside / west side / chose your weapon for three years , see what that does to numbers .. (also remove ALL archery draw units for those three years, true east /west ) Given ODFW numbers at least 5k rifle hunters that grab a bow tag after not getting their rifle would be out of the running . If I was a rifle hunter who has to have a ton of points, and falls back to archery, I would be not happy with archery going to draw also,.. be very careful of what you wish for.

 

[FOG]

I can tell you alot of us that live in Central Oregon are planning on piling into the cascades when this happens.
Wait until Black tail season this year. You may want to buy some bullet proof vests its gonna be a war zone.
The pressure will just keep moving to the next best general area until the entire state is draw.

I know very very few like maybe 2 people that weren't already buying points.
And I also know very few people that won't keep putting in for the same old hard to draw spot.

Nailed it.. every draw area just overloads the units close by.. really helps ODFW then make the non-draw a draw unit.. self feeding. FYI .. as a archery hunter on west side, tip to west side rifle hunters.. stop spending two weeks prior to season scouting then blowing up the woods with "sighting in" wonder why you don't see deer and blame archery, when its your own actions PRIOR to season.. myself, after years of enduring the 2 week pre-free fire sighting in season, just do not hunt on west side for safety and peace of mind.

 

[slick]

That’s precisely the reason they are making ALL blue and wallowa’s draw. Is so they don’t pack into those areas.

Look at where you can go on a general tag. It’s all crazy low elk densities. Even if guys pile into some of those SE units, there isn’t enough elk to pass around, so it’s going to lend itself to locals who can scout/know the country very well- and with anything- willing to work for it.

People are going to go hunt Intestate, Ft Rock, Paulina, Silver Lake, etc and aren’t going to see elk or elk sign and I believe that becomes self limiting. If guys want to go on a camping trip in their Kuiu be my guest.

You hunt the east side because of the over crowding safety issues on the west side. Maybe look to a positive change in your own backyard.

Everyone wants to go to ID, MT, WY - guess what those states get away with General elk tags for residents because they don’t have a shit show of a zoo of the Willamette Valley piling into all of the rural areas. Then they LIMIT the non-res hunters.
Edit to add: we don’t have the non resident desire other states do because of pressure, season structure, trophy quality, and the costs on top of it- but because we have so many resident hunters we have to limit ourselves (R) if we want to have any kind of decent hunting left out here.

Guys want good hunting but also want opportunity. With the number of OR resident hunters it’s pretty hard to have both.

Not to mention the aforementioned states actually have security cover and roadless areas. We ought to shut down roads in Oregon (there enough of them) that’ll help the elk, will improve the hunting, decrease pressure in areas, make people work for it.

West side guys always want their cake and eat it too. They can hunt in their backyard on general tags no problem, and then bitch about when the east side wants to limit opportunity to improve quality.

 

[Dirtscoots]

Dagum that took two beers to take in all that wisdom.

 

[hibernation]

Not to mention they actually have security cover and roadless areas. We ought to shut down roads in Oregon (there enough of them) that’ll help the elk, will improve the hunting, decrease pressure in areas, make people work for it.

100%

Not saying everything needs to be full wilderness with backpacking/horsepacking as your only option, but right now you can drive on the ridge, along the valley floor, usually a couple mid-slope roads, it's crazy in some areas. Where are elk supposed to feel safe when there's trucks crawling around every slope?

 

[FOG]

That’s precisely the reason they are making ALL blue and wallowa’s draw. Is so they don’t pack into those areas.

Look at where you can go on a general tag. It’s all crazy low elk densities. Even if guys pile into some of those SE units, there isn’t enough elk to pass around, so it’s going to lend itself to locals who can scout/know the country very well- and with anything- willing to work for it.

People are going to go hunt Intestate, Ft Rock, Paulina, Silver Lake, etc and aren’t going to see elk or elk sign and I believe that becomes self limiting. If guys want to go on a camping trip in their Kuiu be my guest.

You hunt the east side because of the over crowding safety issues on the west side. Maybe look to a positive change in your own backyard.

Everyone wants to go to ID, MT, WY - guess what those states get away with General elk tags for residents because they don’t have a shit show of a zoo of the Willamette Valley piling into all of the rural areas. Then they LIMIT the non-res hunters.
Edit to add: we don’t have the non resident desire other states do because of pressure, season structure, trophy quality, and the costs on top of it- but because we have so many resident hunters we have to limit ourselves (R) if we want to have any kind of decent hunting left out here.

Guys want good hunting but also want opportunity. With the number of OR resident hunters it’s pretty hard to have both.

Not to mention the aforementioned states actually have security cover and roadless areas. We ought to shut down roads in Oregon (there enough of them) that’ll help the elk, will improve the hunting, decrease pressure in areas, make people work for it.

West side guys always want their cake and eat it too. They can hunt in their backyard on general tags no problem, and then bitch about when the east side wants to limit opportunity to improve quality.

Yet another person from Oregon who lives on east side and thinks only they should get to hunt that area. Well, I happen to have "lived on west side and hunted east" now have home east of JD. have for 3 years.. So not "intruding on your private use of public lands.. Fyi, you can hunt ID, MT, CO, and WY on non-res over the counter ..
West side and east side , all OREGON and hunting lic is paying for Oregon game .. Hunting pressure is part of hunting. My complaint was with all the rifle hunters flooding the woods two weeks prior to GS and we are out there in camo.
Missing the point on draw, .. it does no one any good. There is not one bio reason stated by ODFW about draw for elk, its all touchy - feely .. If you check every rifle controlled hunt for east side deer, they out pace ES archery nearly 2 to 1.. with a kill rate nearly twice as high, how is that going to increase deer numbers?
When an archer sees elk / deer at 100 -200 yds, hunt on, Rifle .. hunt over. Talk about improvements in archery equipment and you still do not have much change in distance that animals are taken, you do however have better odds for a solid shot at 40 maybe 50 yrds.. Compare to changes in rifle which have spawned long range shots out to 500-800 yds, with an good chance for average shooter taking 200-300 yds shots and taking animal. Far cry from 1983 when long range was 200yds and average weekend hunter was 100 to 150yds. NOT complaining about rifle hunters, just noting the huge advantages ..
For those who want "quality hunt" ... what is idea of quality? Require photo id proving you live in east side to hunt east side? OR... never seeing another hunter on PUBLIC ground? if that's your desire, get off the road, hike deep into some zone and enjoy. Myself, enjoy being able to travel around and see different area, sometimes we stop, hike, hunt , camp , other times we just pass on through. so what?.. Why do we want to limit others so we can maybe get to hunt? Again, if it goes draw, everyone gets screwed..

 

[wapitibob]

.. Fyi, you can hunt ID, MT, CO, and WY on non-res over the counter ..

better look again

 

[slick]

Yet another person from Oregon who lives on east side and thinks only they should get to hunt that area. Well, I happen to have "lived on west side and hunted east" now have home east of JD. have for 3 years.. So not "intruding on your private use of public lands.. Fyi, you can hunt ID, MT, CO, and WY on non-res over the counter ..
West side and east side , all OREGON and hunting lic is paying for Oregon game .. Hunting pressure is part of hunting. My complaint was with all the rifle hunters flooding the woods two weeks prior to GS and we are out there in camo.
Missing the point on draw, .. it does no one any good. There is not one bio reason stated by ODFW about draw for elk, its all touchy - feely .. If you check every rifle controlled hunt for east side deer, they out pace ES archery nearly 2 to 1.. with a kill rate nearly twice as high, how is that going to increase deer numbers?
When an archer sees elk / deer at 100 -200 yds, hunt on, Rifle .. hunt over. Talk about improvements in archery equipment and you still do not have much change in distance that animals are taken, you do however have better odds for a solid shot at 40 maybe 50 yrds.. Compare to changes in rifle which have spawned long range shots out to 500-800 yds, with an good chance for average shooter taking 200-300 yds shots and taking animal. Far cry from 1983 when long range was 200yds and average weekend hunter was 100 to 150yds. NOT complaining about rifle hunters, just noting the huge advantages ..
For those who want "quality hunt" ... what is idea of quality? Require photo id proving you live in east side to hunt east side? OR... never seeing another hunter on PUBLIC ground? if that's your desire, get off the road, hike deep into some zone and enjoy. Myself, enjoy being able to travel around and see different area, sometimes we stop, hike, hunt , camp , other times we just pass on through. so what?.. Why do we want to limit others so we can maybe get to hunt? Again, if it goes draw, everyone gets screwed..

Place holder when I get to a computer.

I don’t think only east side should be allowed to hunt east side. We have a population center that floods the East side. That’s why I think it should go to controlled. And when a west side person can hunt their backyard whenever they want, there is a distinct disadvantage to an east side person who doesn’t always get to hunt their backyard and if it wasn’t for the valley the low densities of East side folks would be allowed to hunt their backyard annually. See my point?

Eastern Oregon is more like WY ID MT as far as human densities go. But that’s where west side want their cake (most* want to come east to hunt) and eat it too (have their general tags in their backyard).

I also lived out west for a few years, but to pretend that doesn’t exist is not having your eyes open.

Just so you’re aware you can’t go OTC to WY or MT. And ID is first come first served CAPPED. So I also wouldn’t called it OTC anymore. But again, we don’t have the flood of NR here because we have a metric butt ton of resident hunters that we don’t control as is.

It absolutely does good. It reduces the number of people in the woods, therefore making elk per hunter densities higher, giving you a better crack at a bull cause 3 other guys (shouldn’t now) be chasing it.

It reduces stressors on the elk during the rut, therefore the rut isn’t pushed back which leads to late born calves, increasing the likely of late calves starving when their cow gets shot.

It reduces the number of people shooting bulls, increasing the bull to cow ratio. Leading to an older age class bull.

Again we have little to no security cover in many of those units proposed to go controlled. Sure- north fork of JD, strawberries, eagle caps, snake, but that pales in comparison to the roadless areas to our neighboring states to the east leading to more bulls, older age class bulls, decreased harvest, security cover, etc etc etc.

What is this fluffy stuff you speak of??

No one is limiting you camping or driving through and seeing the country. I’m certain there will be archery tags within those units that will go 2nd choice.

Also 70(maybe 75%) or OR is rifle hunters. Therefore 70-75% of the harvest should come from rifle hunters. It should be fair and equitable. Rifle hunters have been cut and cut and cut and cut again, it’s time we can take our share of the load.

 

[hibernation]

There is not one bio reason stated by ODFW about draw for elk

They mention not having any year to year control over harvest in these areas, which is a pretty important biological reason if we're considering hunting to be part of the conservation toolbox. If there's a big winter kill event and they want to take some pressure off an area, right now the only tool they have is to lower the number of rifle tags. It seems reasonable to me that unlimited tags are too difficult to manage now that archery has gone from a niche season with fairly low success, to one of the most popular tags and half the bull harvest in some units.

 

[wapitibob]

Latest proposal and info, I like it.

"..The primary reason for the proposed change is to improve options for wildlife managers to address both biological and social concerns such as bull ratios below management objectives, harvest inequities between archery and rifle elk seasons, conflicts regarding hunter density and elk displacement in certain areas."

https://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/big_game/docs/2022_Initial_Archery_Proposal_Presentation.pdf

 

[WRO]

100%

Not saying everything needs to be full wilderness with backpacking/horsepacking as your only option, but right now you can drive on the ridge, along the valley floor, usually a couple mid-slope roads, it's crazy in some areas. Where are elk supposed to feel safe when there's trucks crawling around every slope?

We've killed multiple elk within 400 yards of the paved main line..

I've seen elk bunched up close to roads in the brush several times.

 

[slick]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Do you think elk prefer to be by roads?


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[Dirtscoots]

Place holder when I get to a computer.

I don’t think only east side should be allowed to hunt east side. We have a population center that floods the East side. That’s why I think it should go to controlled. And when a west side person can hunt their backyard whenever they want, there is a distinct disadvantage to an east side person who doesn’t always get to hunt their backyard and if it wasn’t for the valley the low densities of East side folks would be allowed to hunt their backyard annually. See my point?

Eastern Oregon is more like WY ID MT as far as human densities go. But that’s where west side want their cake (most* want to come east to hunt) and eat it too (have their general tags in their backyard).

I also lived out west for a few years, but to pretend that doesn’t exist is not having your eyes open.

I’m guilty having cake and eating it is not a bad deal. With that said I’m not opposed to changes in regulations. You mention you have lived on west side have you had the experience of our general rifle seasons within last 5 years? My point of view is seeing how our rifle season is, and every year our archery season gets more and more similar in pressure as to our rifle season. I do not see how our few units that stay general will not keep becoming overcrowded. Point in case I have hunted two units my hole life. One three point or better rifle draw nearly annually, one right across the river general shoot anything you see horns. The draw hunt has no more elk opportunities. It has less people opportunity which makes hunting more worth while and worth the risk of not having a tag every year. Keep in mind I’m talking rifle seasons with these comparisons. The way I see it our archery season will do the same thing. If the rest the state is goin draw heck why not here too?

 

[Cameron.25]

I’m guilty having cake and eating it is not a bad deal. With that said I’m not opposed to changes in regulations. You mention you have lived on west side have you had the experience of our general rifle seasons within last 5 years? My point of view is seeing how our rifle season is, and every year our archery season gets more and more similar in pressure as to our rifle season. I do not see how our few units that stay general will not keep becoming overcrowded. Point in case I have hunted two units my hole life. One three point or better rifle draw nearly annually, one right across the river general shoot anything you see horns. The draw hunt has no more elk opportunities. It has less people opportunity which makes hunting more worth while and worth the risk of not having a tag every year. Keep in mind I’m talking rifle seasons with these comparisons. The way I see it our archery season will do the same thing. If the rest the state is goin draw heck why not here too?

I totally see your point and id be open to that if it does overcrowd the general areas really bad the way the proposal is currently written, which it definitely could. I hunt an eastern unit that would stay general unit too. The western general rifle elk hunts ive been on were a kick in the nuts compared to archery in my opinion. I want hunting to get better in oregon but im not an expert at all so i dont know the best way to accomplish that. Problem is i selfishly kinda agree with brtreedog as well, cause i have no issues at all getting into elk everyday in September. I will just wake up earlier, hunt harder and stay out in the dark if i have to to get find elk to hunt.. All i know is i dont envy ODFW lol they sure get a lot of shit from us even if they deserve it, as well as from the anti's

 

[slick]

I’m guilty having cake and eating it is not a bad deal. With that said I’m not opposed to changes in regulations. You mention you have lived on west side have you had the experience of our general rifle seasons within last 5 years? My point of view is seeing how our rifle season is, and every year our archery season gets more and more similar in pressure as to our rifle season. I do not see how our few units that stay general will not keep becoming overcrowded. Point in case I have hunted two units my hole life. One three point or better rifle draw nearly annually, one right across the river general shoot anything you see horns. The draw hunt has no more elk opportunities. It has less people opportunity which makes hunting more worth while and worth the risk of not having a tag every year. Keep in mind I’m talking rifle seasons with these comparisons. The way I see it our archery season will do the same thing. If the rest the state is goin draw heck why not here too?

No, because I choose to archery hunt in Oregon and rifle hunt elsewhere.

But I have lived in western OR in the last five years and have accompanied friends on rifle hunts out west. It’s definitely not my preference.

It’s just a matter of time before it’s all draw, if we’re being honest, but there’s no way a statewide draw for everything will be passed at this time... again, because the west side folks would go nuts if you took away their general tags. (I also understand that some easterner’s travel west to hunt, but I believe it to be the exception)

So continue to have over crowded, and frankly shitty hunts? Or try and do something about it? With the realization that the commission still has to be sold on it.

If the proposal was for the whole state to go draw the hunters of Oregon, primarily those living in close proximity to Salem would burn down ODFW’s doors.

Edit to add: even if the current proposal doesn’t go through, I truly believe you won’t see your west side rifle hunts getting any better anytime soon.

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