215 Berger failure

[WesternHntr]

I shot my bull yesterday at 680 yards with a
215 berger, mv 3020.
First shot was in the lungs, he hunched up and I sent a second round a little hasty...
It hit him in the center of the neck where it meets the shoulder.
Should have dropped in his tracks but the bull barely flinched.
He ran off and luckily I got a 3rd shot in him a few minutes later finally killing him.
When I skinned him out I saw that the first shot exploded on impact, the shot in the neck penciled through, and the 3rd shot expanded well.
Total bullshit.. this is the first and last time I'll hunt with a 215 Berger.
Super lucky I didn't lose this bull!
See the attached photo for the penciled exit hole

 

[Cahunter805]

Interesting results. Any pics of the hole/damage of the 1st and 3rd shots? Did the second shot hit bone at all?

 

[Salmon River Solutions]

My guess is you had media packed into the expansion chamber/tip of the bullet.

I've had them do the exact same thing until I started drilling all of mine out.

 

[Ryan Avery]

When you say "exploded on impact" what does that mean? Zero penetration? Any pics?

 

[Wrench]

I just dug a 215 out tonight when I cut mine up. Mine has a mv of 3070 and connected at 480yds. It was camped out under the hide on the off side after breaking the humerus on the entry.

 

[Wrench]

My pard hit a bull with the 210 in the same fashion as my shot above, but the bullet basically vaporized on the humerus and made it about 1/2" into the brisket. That bull ran off like nothing happened and was killed a few days later by his FIL.

 

[WesternHntr]

When you say "exploded on impact" what does that mean? Zero penetration? Any pics?

I mean it over expanded prematurely, the shot was quartering away and entered behind the lungs, it should have traveled through and angled into the offside shoulder.
Instead it came apart in fragmented pieces about 6" in, I thought I had a pic of that one but I didn't.
The 3rd shot made it to the offside shoulder and performed really well, these bullets are just inconsistent.

My guess is you had media packed into the expansion chamber/tip of the bullet.

I've had them do the exact same thing until I started drilling all of mine out.

I have no interest in a bullet that needs drilled out to expand properly, or that gets its tip mashed shut in the mag from recoil..

I met another LR Hunter this weekend who hit a bull in the shoulder with a 300 grain Berger at 800 yards, it exploded and blew the shoulder apart, luckily he found him the next day and shot him again.
He also told me his daughter shot a cow last year and both bullets pencilled right through it's vitals, it went a long ways before dying.
He told me he's never hunting with Berger's again after this season

 

[tdhanses]

Where the bullet penciled did you happen to open up the chest cavity to see what the lungs and organs looked like? The Berger should penetrate about 5”, come apart and the base should exit or be caught up on the opposite side. I had a similar entrance and exit on an antelope that destroyed the vitals. When they explode it is usually because it hit a big solid object, like a shoulder, I believe.

I don’t know if I’d say they are inconsistent, I bet you find similar complaints on any bullet you plan to use, there will be plenty that say it’s the best and others with stories like yours.

I haven’t shot a bunch of animals with the Berger’s but both Ryan Avery and Broz have seen them work on 100’s of animals.

 

[Spoonman]

I don’t think the bullets are inconsistent, I think the structure of a elk is inconsistent. It’s so hard to determine bullet performance when it hits different parts of the body at different velocities. No two shots are
identical, which means no two bullets will perform identical to each other. I’m not saying that One off your bullets didn’t have bad performance I’m just saying there are circumstances that change the performance on any given bullet on any given shot on any given animal.

 

[justin davis]

Id like to see a pic of the 1st shot. Interesting

 

[Dr. Rx]

I don’t think the bullets are inconsistent, I think the structure of a elk is inconsistent. It’s so hard to determine bullet performance when it hits different parts of the body at different velocities. No two shots are
identical, which means no two bullets will perform identical to each other. I’m not saying that One off your bullets didn’t have bad performance I’m just saying there are circumstances that change the performance on any given bullet on any given shot on any given animal.

This is a absolutely true

 

[Savagenut]

Two failures on the same animal has to be more than shot placement.

 

[Cahunter805]

I mean it over expanded prematurely, the shot was quartering away and entered behind the lungs, it should have traveled through and angled into the offside shoulder.
Instead it came apart in fragmented pieces about 6" in, I thought I had a pic of that one but I didn't.


Could the angle have been a little more quartered away than you though? Also what did the vitals look like? Did the fragmentation hit the lungs?Vitals?
Also what bullet are you now considering for LR in your rifle?

 

[Spoonman]

The deal is if you shoot enough animals you are eventually going to get a bullet that doesn’t do what you like it to do. I shoot the 215 out of a 300wm (mv2880) and have had great performance from them. I shoot 225 grain Barnes out of my 338 and they have performed great all but two times. Both were on black bear, both pencil holed. The bullets hit zero bone and only soft tissue and both produced a exit hole about a 1/2”. Both bear were recovered with minimal internal damage. Again every single shot is different and will produce a different outcome. Not sure I have heard of a projectile that someone didn’t complain about at one point or another from “failure “!

 

[Ryan Avery]

You don't learn much from one animal. The fact is bullets do fail. But there is WAY too many dead elk by 215s to say they are not consistent.

 

[Indian Summer]

There are lots of stories like yours. Bergers splattering in impact with zero penetration. They used to give me free boxes of 30 cal VLDs because I was an outfitter. I quit using them. Free to good home!

 

[WesternHntr]

I mean it over expanded prematurely, the shot was quartering away and entered behind the lungs, it should have traveled through and angled into the offside shoulder.
Instead it came apart in fragmented pieces about 6" in, I thought I had a pic of that one but I didn't.


Could the angle have been a little more quartered away than you though? Also what did the vitals look like? Did the fragmentation hit the lungs?Vitals?
Also what bullet are you now considering for LR in your 300win?

Nope not an extreme angle, I didn't dig around in there too much it was a disgusting mess with shrapnel everywhere.
Looked like it hit rib and came apart quick.
I typically shoot ELDM's and they've been great, I went with the 215 because my barrel wouldn't shoot the 225's very well.
I might give the Accubond LR a try

 

[WesternHntr]

You don't learn much from one animal. The fact is bullets do fail. But there is WAY too many dead elk by 215s to say they are not consistent.

I learned enough my friend...
Believe what you wish, I'm not here to change opinions but to provide feedback for those who are open minded and care about terminal performance

 

[Ryan Avery]

Berger VLDs and 215s are not the same.

There are lots of stories like yours. Bergers splattering in impact with zero penetration. They used to give me free boxes of 30 cal VLDs because I was an outfitter. I quit using them. Free to good home!

The 215 is not a VLD.

 

[Cahunter805]

So was the mess from the shrapnel lungs?Liver?Heart? Sounds as if the vitals were pretty destroyed? Elk are tough for sure but I’m betting it would have die shortly from the damage but we all know keep shooting until they are down.