.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Just loaded up some 69grain tmks for a CZ. Wanted to go 77 but it’s a 1:9 twist. Can’t wait to see how they do and glad to see someone else keeping this thread alive.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Bringing this back up to get some more reading now that hunting season is kicking off in some areas.

Im sitting on 500 77tmk and a 223 that’s stupid easy to shoot. Considering taking it out for mule deer in Montana this year as the build I was originally planning on for this hunt has hit some hickups, and I’m not sure carrying my 15 pound Match rifle is going to be much fun.

Since I am not sitting on 500 rounds of BH 77 gr TMK, I have been considering some alternatives.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

How do you like the TAC? Been loading with Benchmark mostly.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I have only started using it and that was with 75 gr Hornady HPs. Groups with those preliminary loads were better in my Tikka than groups with factory BH 77 gr SMKs (not TMKs). I hope to load some of the TMKs up in the next few weeks.

 

[RedRidge]

Glad someone refreshed this one. Probably one of my top favorite topics. Every now and then I search it to see if anything has been added. I have one box of TMKs. Plan on using it on at least some whitetail this year.

 

[robtattoo]

Just loaded up some 69grain tmks for a CZ. Wanted to go 77 but it’s a 1:9 twist. Can’t wait to see how they do and glad to see someone else keeping this thread alive.

I wouldn't honestly lose too much sleep over the 1:9 twist. My crapper Savage is the same & shoots them well enough. 10 into 1-1/2" away 100 is more than enough for its range limit.

 

[204guy]

Bringing this back up to get some more reading now that hunting season is kicking off in some areas.

Im sitting on 500 77tmk and a 223 that’s stupid easy to shoot. Considering taking it out for mule deer in Montana this year as the build I was originally planning on for this hunt has hit some hickups, and I’m not sure carrying my 15 pound Match rifle is going to be much fun.

Just do it. Be cognizant of really tough angles, otherwise put a 77 tmk through vitals and go collect your deer. You're over thinking it and it's not necessary.

 

[Spoonbill]

How do you like the TAC? Been loading with Benchmark mostly.

I loaded up some 77 gr factory seconds I bought from powder valley using 24 grains of TAC. Did well out of my 12.5” AR pistol on a steel plate at 100 yards. Going to try and put it on paper this week and see what kind of groups I get, vs just hitting a 12” plate.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

I wouldn't honestly lose too much sleep over the 1:9 twist. My crapper Savage is the same & shoots them well enough. 10 into 1-1/2" away 100 is more than enough for its range limit.

they will stabilize? Maybe I’ll try em

 

[Slappy]

Did a little shooting yesterday, and figured I’d throw some pictures in the thread. All shots were made at 40 yards, and recovered using soaked paper.

From left to right:

Federal Tactical 55 Grain Soft Point out of 11.5” BCM

Federal Tactical 55 Grain Soft Point out of 20” Noveske

Hornady 68 Boat Tail out of 11.5” BCM



free image url



Next range session I will try the Barns 70 Grain TSX

 

[robtattoo]

they will stabilize? Maybe I’ll try em

They're grouping predictably out to 300 (1-1/2" @100, 3"@200, 5"@300) so I would say they're ok out to that. I've not tried them at 500 yet, so I wouldn't like to say for certain that they're fully stabilized, they could well begin to yaw as they drop velocity, but i'm comfortable with them out to their maximum effective distance.

 

[SIontheHunt]

I can see that it is hotly contended but the fact of the matter is a personal decision to margin of error and meat loss. There are bullet constructions that go off like a bomb, and others that retain more mass. Each school of thought is valid as more fragmentation causes more wound channels, and more weight retention causes the one wound channel to inflict more hydro static shock. A large "tougher" bullet may spend more energy outside of the animal as it exits than a smaller more frangible design, thus the actual amount of energy transferred into the animal could be less with a large heavy high weight retention bullet than a smaller round which fragments more. There is a breaking point where a bullet will be too deformed upon hitting bone to do its job once inside. There is no denying that a larger bullet going faster has more energy but it is the construction of the bullet that dictates how much of that energy is transferred to the animal.

All that being said, personal allowance for margin of error is what should guide your decision. A larger, lets say .30 cal magnum, in going to deliver more energy into an animal than a smaller .22 bore bullet of similar terminal ballistics upon entry. So it stands to reason that more lead moving faster will provide more margin for error. Single lung an elk with the .223 and with a 300RUM and you will have very different results. The argument then is the same as the one around head shots. How confident are you that you can put the bullet where it needs to go every time? And the size of where it needs to go changes with what you shoot. That is not up to anyone but you to decide, assuming it is legal. We all strive to make the best shot possible but SH!T happens.

speaking to the TMKs this is a direct quote from Sierra "While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications. Although MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are commonly used for varmint hunting, their design will not provide the same reliable explosive expansion at equivalent velocities in varmints compared to their lightly jacketed Hornet, Blitz or Varminter counterparts. " not having any experience with the round to me this means that it may have the toughness to penetrate larger game and given the results of the OP it likely transfers that energy well once inside the cavity.

I will end with a story, I once made an absolutely terrible shot on a whitetail with a .308 win and nosler balistic tips, it hit the animal so far back that it was behind the belly BUT the terminal balistics were such that the arteries in the rear legs and contents of the abdominal cavity (liver stomach etc) all were considerably damaged. The deer fell over dead within 10 yds. Impressive, but I have since moved away from those rounds because of meat damage.

 

[flyinsquirel]

With deer in mind, between the 55gr TTSX and the 62 TTSX which one would you pick? Speed or the extra mass?

 

[BAKPAKR]

With deer in mind, between the 55gr TTSX and the 62 TTSX which one would you pick? Speed or the extra mass?

I don’t have any experience with the 55 gr Barnes but my daughter and I have shot five deer with the 62 gr TTSX. The longest shot was not much over 100 yards, but all were one shot kills with an exit hole. Two dropped in their tracks.

 

[TheGDog]

With deer in mind, between the 55gr TTSX and the 62 TTSX which one would you pick? Speed or the extra mass?

I'm sure both will do it, but I'd go with the 62gr. I hit a bobcat in the shoulder blade area with the Remington HTP 62gr Barnes and it completely removed a section of spine... like maybe.. I wanna say 2" wide portion? I know, not apples-to-apples comparison.. but.. my first 'yote... I shot with a 55gr... was a very rushed jumped-shot at like 25yds.... do not think I hit vitals... the yote barrel-rolled mid-air.... fell to the ground in a slump.. but then rocked back and forth... for several seconds... Then S.O.B. if he didn't get back up onto his feet!... then turn and look back at me.... then ran off! I blood-trailed him 250+yds... never did find him. Again, I know that wasn't a vitals hit... pretty sure I hit above the ribs and smacked the phalanges protruding at the shoulder region area... hence the barrel-roll happening. But still... that bobcat immediately disappeared out of sight into the grasses. Went right down. Way overkill for a bobcat, but I was impressed by the massive cavity it left behind in the spine!

 

[davescarp]

With deer in mind, between the 55gr TTSX and the 62 TTSX which one would you pick? Speed or the extra mass?

No direct experience, but in theory you want coppers going fast to initiate the exoansion, which would suggest the 55s but not sure how much difference there is in velocity between the 2

 

[flyinsquirel]

Thanks fellas. I think I'll grab some 62's and see if I can't put it to work.

 

[Life_Feeds_On_Life]

I'm sure both will do it, but I'd go with the 62gr. I hit a bobcat in the shoulder blade area with the Remington HTP 62gr Barnes and it completely removed a section of spine... like maybe.. I wanna say 2" wide portion? I know, not apples-to-apples comparison.. but.. my first 'yote... I shot with a 55gr... was a very rushed jumped-shot at like 25yds.... do not think I hit vitals... the yote barrel-rolled mid-air.... fell to the ground in a slump.. but then rocked back and forth... for several seconds... Then S.O.B. if he didn't get back up onto his feet!... then turn and look back at me.... then ran off! I blood-trailed him 250+yds... never did find him. Again, I know that wasn't a vitals hit... pretty sure I hit above the ribs and smacked the phalanges protruding at the shoulder region area... hence the barrel-roll happening. But still... that bobcat immediately disappeared out of sight into the grasses. Went right down. Way overkill for a bobcat, but I was impressed by the massive cavity it left behind in the spine!

How was the fur on that cat?

 

[TheGDog]

How was the fur on that cat?

I've been draggin my feet in contacting back the Taxidermist. Last called him in May and he explained that Covid had slowed things down in terms of him getting his supplies from Taxidermy Supply Wharehouse stores. I'm sure he could stitch that hole up though. It was a bit of a hole, but not like pieces of the hide were missing or anything. And the edge of the hole wasn't too ragged looking.

And oh my goodness the fur is sooo soft on those things!! I was really surprised by that. By how soft it was! If I'd have known that I'd have put in much more effort towards getting more of them before my State went Full-Retard and banned taking them.

Here's a pic of the wound from that 62gr on the cat...


Another pic showing how he'd instructed me to skin him...


BTW... Bobcat in a crock-pot is dang good!

 

[Life_Feeds_On_Life]

I've been draggin my feet in contacting back the Taxidermist. Last called him in May and he explained that Covid had slowed things down in terms of him getting his supplies from Taxidermy Supply Wharehouse stores. I'm sure he could stitch that hole up though. It was a bit of a hole, but not like pieces of the hide were missing or anything. And the edge of the hole wasn't too ragged looking.

And oh my goodness the fur is sooo soft on those things!! I was really surprised by that. By how soft it was! If I'd have known that I'd have put in much more effort towards getting more of them before my State went Full-Retard and banned taking them.

Here's a pic of the wound from that 62gr on the cat...
View attachment 209605

Another pic showing how he'd instructed me to skin him...
View attachment 209607

BTW... Bobcat in a crock-pot is dang good!

Awesome! That's not too bad and I bet it wouldn't be as bad had you not hit the spine. I'm definitely intrigued to load some up for anything from varmints to deer.