.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[Formidilosus]

They are quite similar. The 88gr ELD-M is worth building a rifle around.

 

[draebi]

They are quite similar. The 88gr ELD-M is worth building a rifle around.

I have some 88s I'm going to try to stabilize in a Tikka 22-250 8 twist but have read mixed results on this. Will be shooting mostly around 1k' elevation. In your experience do they need more twist with that kind of speed?

 

[Formidilosus]

The few I’ve seen have been ok in an 8”.

 

[mt100gr.]

The few I’ve seen have been ok in an 8”.

Form, since you're chiming in again on this thread and I'm holding a couple deer tags - have you seen any terminal performance from the 73gr berger OTM? I found some factory ammo that shoots really well in my 5.56 bolt rifle.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, since you're chiming in again on this thread and I'm holding a couple deer tags - have you seen any terminal performance from the 73gr berger OTM? I found some factory ammo that shoots really well in my 5.56 bolt rifle.

Yes. It had a thicker jacket and will penetrate 4-6 inches insulated before fragmentation. Impact velocity needs to to be in the 2,000-2,050fps range.

 

[mt100gr.]

Yes. It had a thicker jacket and will penetrate 4-6 inches insulated before fragmentation. Impact velocity needs to to be in the 2,000-2,050fps range.

Thank you. It won't be setting any velocity records out of the short barrel I have - is that 2000+ fps the minimum threshold for upset?

 

[Formidilosus]

Thank you. It won't be setting any velocity records out of the short barrel I have - is that 2000+ fps the minimum threshold for upset?

Yep. At least for reliable and consistent upset.

 

[menhaden_man]

How about the TMKs or ELD-Ms in other rifles? Like 25-06, 30-06, 6.5 G, 6.5 CM, 7 MM, etc.? Don't know if they're made in all these platforms, but have heard of the ELDM being a killer in 6.5. Some states won't let anything smaller than 6 mm for deer as you all know.

 

[draebi]

The few I’ve seen have been ok in an 8”.

Thank you sir! Always great getting feedback from those that have already been there and done that.

 

[cod0396]

77gr TMK, 148 yards. This is entrance side. It went through right shoulder blade then these ribs.
View attachment 223544

The TMK never fails to impress me. I have a few questions if you don’t mind answering:

1) How large are TMK entry/exit wounds, typically speaking? I’d guess around the 2-3” zone based on pics posted in this thread. Is the actual wound channel about the same size, or even larger?

2) Do you think the TMK will underpenetrate at point blank to 10 yards out of a 16” barrel on a 2 legged critter? I know this is a hunting forum, but this thread has encouraged me to stock some TMK (when availability improves) as a general purpose defense load.

 

[Formidilosus]

The TMK never fails to impress me. I have a few questions if you don’t mind answering:

1) How large are TMK entry/exit wounds, typically speaking? I’d guess around the 2-3” zone based on pics posted in this thread. Is the actual wound channel about the same size, or even larger?

2) Do you think the TMK will underpenetrate at point blank to 10 yards out of a 16” barrel on a 2 legged critter? I know this is a hunting forum, but this thread has encouraged me to stock some TMK (when availability improves) as a general purpose defense load.

1). Depends on what is hit. In hide the entry is small, if it exits it is variable the animal and location. Pure rib shots on normal deer/antelope- 2-3” exits. If you hit bone on entrance side it probably won’t exit. Bone on exit side could be 3-4”.
On big deer, and animals bigger than deer, pure ribs= quarter size exit. Any bone and it generally is under the offside skin. Either way, massive damage when impacts are in the 2,200fps range and above.

2). No. The 77gr TMK was engineered to be the most capable open air projectile in tissue. 14-16” of penetration.

 

[bbell]

How about the TMKs or ELD-Ms in other rifles? Like 25-06, 30-06, 6.5 G, 6.5 CM, 7 MM, etc.? Don't know if they're made in all these platforms, but have heard of the ELDM being a killer in 6.5. Some states won't let anything smaller than 6 mm for deer as you all know.

I only have a sample of one so far. 6.5 Grendel from my ar with a 16” barrel. Blacktail 3x3 at 125yds. He turned as I shot so it went through front shoulder and shredded his lungs and had a 1.5” exit Behind the opposite shoulder. Surprised at the lack of meat damage on the shoulder it went through. Went 0 feet. I will keep using them for now. It was impressive.

 

[cod0396]

1). Depends on what is hit. In hide the entry is small, if it exits it is variable the animal and location. Pure rib shots on normal deer/antelope- 2-3” exits. If you hit bone on entrance side it probably won’t exit. Bone on exit side could be 3-4”.
On big deer, and animals bigger than deer, pure ribs= quarter size exit. Any bone and it generally is under the offside skin. Either way, massive damage when impacts are in the 2,200fps range and above.

2). No. The 77gr TMK was engineered to be the most capable open air projectile in tissue. 14-16” of penetration.

Thank you. To be clear, internal damage on larger animals is still massive (relative to damage on smaller animals) even if the exit wound is a lot smaller?

 

[Bcleck90]

It’s not a big muley but I had a chance to test out my new Tikka T3X .223. I’m shooting 75 grain Gold Dots because that’s all I’ve been able to get my hands on. Hoping to test it out again on antelope this week.

228 yards. Dropped in its tracks. Broke one shoulder and exited out the other side. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I probably would have never even thought to use a .223 for deer or antelope if my being honest. It’s helped my shooting a ton with all the practice.

 

[TxxAgg]

Keeps getting better and better

 

[Castle Rock]

It is amazing how much things have changed for me over the years
35 years ago I was using a 338 or 270 for everything
these days it’s generally 22/250 with 77 grain TMKs

 

[rlmmarine]

Nothing about those pics look minimal to me.

Still, like to see some elk data...

They didnt show the pictures of the ones that got away or the ones they never found. Just because we can doesnt mean we should

 

[Castle Rock]

They didnt show the pictures of the ones that got away or the ones they never found. Just because we can doesnt mean we should

I bet you are wearing a mask as you type this

 

[ericwh]

They didnt show the pictures of the ones that got away or the ones they never found. Just because we can doesnt mean we should

If the selected cartridge/bullet combination stays together well enough to penetrate the shoulder of the targeted species and also expands and causes enough damage for a clean kill on a rib shot I don't see how the cartridge is causing any extra risk of losing an animal...

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Some people just like to argue.