.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[Formidilosus]

Not really.Self explanatory for me.

What is self explanatory?

 

[SoDaky]

I wouldn't think of using it for elk.You may differ.Great.

 

[Millerish]

To say the least, could definitely open some doors. Not too long ago there was not much of a market for 6mm, 6.5's and now look at the demand!

 

[Ndbowhunter]

That stag bang flopped and that ain’t no little spiker.

And a 222 with 55gr sp.

Then again ur throwing out the baby with the bath water. Nobody claims a 223 will Texas heart shot at 500 on a 400” mastodon of an elk.

But if ur in the woods with a couple general season tags in ur pocket and ur on a mission targeting deer and a nice 5x5 is across the gully.

Get that 77gr tmk inside the lungs on the upside of 2200fps and that elk isn’t long for this world.

 

[davescarp]

Found this on Sierra's website? WTF doesn't make sense at all does it?

"While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications. Although MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are commonly used for varmint hunting, their design will not provide the same reliable explosive expansion at equivalent velocities in varmints compared to their lightly jacketed Hornet, Blitz or Varminter counterparts."

 

[Castle Rock]

What kind of deer is that? It’s got hair like a rusa but looks too small.

I think it was a Rusa/ Sambar cross

 

[Ryan Avery]

Found this on Sierra's website? WTF doesn't make sense at all does it?

"While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing and Tipped MatchKing bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications. Although MatchKing and Tipped MatchKing bullets are commonly used for varmint hunting, their design will not provide the same reliable explosive expansion at equivalent velocities in varmints compared to their lightly jacketed Hornet, Blitz or Varminter counterparts."

The .223 77 SMKs aren't tipped like the 95 grain SMKs

I have shot a few animals with the new tipped 230 SMKs. They are NOT good for hunting. I shot a bull and didn't find him for six days. When I did find him it looked like he was hit twice behind the shoulder but the bullets didn't open.

And yes, I punched my tag the day I shot him. I knew he was dead.

 

[davescarp]

The .223 77 SMKs aren't tipped like the 95 grain SMKs

I have shot a few animals with the new tipped 230 SMKs. They are NOT good for hunting. I shot a bull and didn't find him for six days. When I did find him it looked like he was hit twice behind the shoulder but the bullets didn't open.

This was taken directly from their TMK 224 bullet page tho. Based on others view in this thread, they appear to be very effective. Confusion setting in...

.22 Cal / 5.56mm 77 Gr. TMK - Sierra Bullets

Sierra has enhanced a segment of the MatchKing line by adding the acetal resin tip, thus crowning the Tipped MatchKing (TMK) bullet line. The major advantage of adding a tip to the bullet is the reduction of drag, producing a more favorable ballistic coefficient. Another benefit is reliable...

www.sierrabullets.com

 

[Ryan Avery]

This was taken directly from their TMK 224 bullet page tho. Based on others view in this thread, they appear to be very effective. Confusion setting in...

.22 Cal / 5.56mm 77 Gr. TMK - Sierra Bullets

Sierra has enhanced a segment of the MatchKing line by adding the acetal resin tip, thus crowning the Tipped MatchKing (TMK) bullet line. The major advantage of adding a tip to the bullet is the reduction of drag, producing a more favorable ballistic coefficient. Another benefit is reliable...

www.sierrabullets.com

No, you are correct, I was thinking of the way the new standard copper tipped SMKs has changed. When they changed to the new sleeker SMK, they made the tip almost looked crimped. IT will not open well compared to the old blunt nose looking SMK, Never used the "tipped" SMK. But I would imagine they would work just as well as the ELD-M

The older blunt nose SMKs like the 77 grainers are nasty on animals. It's just like Berger saying you can't use their target bullets on game. I have shot or witness over fifty elk get shot with a target bullet.

 

[BjornF16]

The 230 grain SMK is not “tipped” with the acetal resin (plastic) tip.

The plastic tip makes a huge difference in hunting performance.

 

[Ryan Avery]

The 230 grain SMK is not “tipped” with the acetal resin (plastic) tip.

The plastic tip makes a huge difference in hunting performance.

You are correct read my above post

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[Formidilosus]

This was taken directly from their TMK 224 bullet page tho. Based on others view in this thread, they appear to be very effective. Confusion setting in...

When a manufacturer states that a projectile is designed for, tested to, or otherwise suitable for hunting- it closes the ability for some uses.


They’re three general lines of Sierra Matchkings-

The standard SMK. Usually do well in hunting, but can be erratic depending on bullet and lot.

New “Pointed” SMK’s. Same as the regular except that Sierra has already closed the tip for improved BC, I.E.- pointing. Very erratic performance in tissue.

Tipped Matchkings- the subject of this thread. As Ryan said they are similar to, however just a bit deeper penetrating than comparable ELD-M’s.

 

[BjornF16]

TMKs have a jacket thickness between the ELD-M and ELD-X.

Should be better at higher velocities than ELD-M and more explosive than ELD-X at slower velocities.

 

[Tmac]

This was taken directly from their TMK 224 bullet page tho. Based on others view in this thread, they appear to be very effective. Confusion setting in...

.22 Cal / 5.56mm 77 Gr. TMK - Sierra Bullets

Sierra has enhanced a segment of the MatchKing line by adding the acetal resin tip, thus crowning the Tipped MatchKing (TMK) bullet line. The major advantage of adding a tip to the bullet is the reduction of drag, producing a more favorable ballistic coefficient. Another benefit is reliable...

www.sierrabullets.com

A couple thoughts that hopefully may help with the seemingly conflicting info. Match bullets are not designed for terminal performance, they are designed for consistency in hitting a target. Once that target is hit, they have done their job. A hunting bullet is also designed for accuracy, but has another important job, performing in the terminal phase inside the animal.

Generally speaking for big game hunting, the smaller the game the better a match bullet will seem to perform, the heavier for caliber a match bullet is the better a match bullet will seem to perform. A 77 gr. 22 caliber match bullet is heavy for the caliber and if used on smaller big game can be deadly. Once game gets to a certain size, all bets are off, with any match bullet imo. Reference the elk issue related above.

Match bullets will tend to have jackets designed for consistency, often thinner, rarely will they have structures designed to control expansion. A relatively thin jacket is thought by some to aid accuracy, it can swage to bore size easier than a all copper bullet. That’s a reason the mono bullets and those with solid shanks almost always have groves now, gives the metal someplace easy to go.

So, imo, it’s a brave trusting soul that uses match bullets for hunting. If you use them smartly, you are probably OK. For me, I am much better off to use a hunting bullet for hunting, give up a little accuracy maybe, and practice with it in the field in hunting conditions (wind). A shooter with a 1 moa rifle that knows how to call the wind very well, will out shoot a shooter with a .5 moa rifle that is not wind savvy, when shooting at longer range. Now I’d prefer a .25 moa rifle and excellent wind doping skills...

Shooting bug holes will not necessarily put meat on the table, being able to place a hunting bullet in the vitals under field conditions will. My two cents, use hunting bullets for hunting, get acceptable accuracy, and practice lots under field conditions. One mans opinion, hope it was helpful, ymmv.

 

[Ryan Avery]

A couple thoughts that hopefully may help with the seemingly conflicting info. Match bullets are not designed for terminal performance, they are designed for consistency in hitting a target. Once that target is hit, they have done their job. A hunting bullet is also designed for accuracy, but has another important job, performing in the terminal phase inside the animal.

Generally speaking for big game hunting, the smaller the game the better a match bullet will seem to perform, the heavier for caliber a match bullet is the better a match bullet will seem to perform. A 77 gr. 22 caliber match bullet is heavy for the caliber and if used on smaller big game can be deadly. Once game gets to a certain size, all bets are off, with any match bullet imo. Reference the elk issue related above.

Match bullets will tend to have jackets designed for consistency, often thinner, rarely will they have structures designed to control expansion. A relatively thin jacket is thought by some to aid accuracy, it can swage to bore size easier than a all copper bullet. That’s a reason the mono bullets and those with solid shanks almost always have groves now, gives the metal someplace easy to go.

So, imo, it’s a brave trusting soul that uses match bullets for hunting. If you use them smartly, you are probably OK. For me, I am much better off to use a hunting bullet for hunting, give up a little accuracy maybe, and practice with it in the field in hunting conditions (wind). A shooter with a 1 moa rifle that knows how to call the wind very well, will out shoot a shooter with a .5 moa rifle that is not wind savvy, when shooting at longer range. Now I’d prefer a .25 moa rifle and excellent wind doping skills...

Shooting bug holes will not necessarily put meat on the table, being able to place a hunting bullet in the vitals under field conditions will. My two cents, use hunting bullets for hunting, get acceptable accuracy, and practice lots under field conditions. One mans opinion, hope it was helpful, ymmv.

There is no perfect bullet. The 230 SMKs I shot that bull with acted more like hunting bullet than a match bullet. The impact velocity was 2150 FPS. That pointed tip won’t allow consistent expansion. But most match bullets are very consistent, I have little doubt a Berger Target or ELD-M would of left a massive wound channel. The point is any bullet can do weird things. But I have seen way to many heavy caliber match bullet do damage to think its some kind of fluke.

Here is a Barnes bullet my buddy found in the elk his daughter shot with Accubonds. He said it should have killed it but it didn’t, bullets are funny that way.

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[Tmac]

Ryan, this is the elk bullet issue I was referring to:

“I have shot a few animals with the new tipped 230 SMKs. They are NOT good for hunting. I shot a bull and didn't find him for six days. When I did find him it looked like he was hit twice behind the shoulder but the bullets didn't open.”.

So is that the same situation you are saying it performed more like a hunting bullet? Where it did not do much damage? With a few exceptions, hunting bullets are designed to expand and do damage, within a velocity min/max. Maybe I missed a post, but now I am getting confused. If I am following you, I will guess the reason the match bullets you used in that example did not do enough damage was a fairly low impact velocity which resulted very delayed or no expansion. Tip got bent or damaged, or who knows. There are no perfect bullets, but using bullets designed for hunting reduces the odds of what you experienced, if I am tracking this right.

For me, I always use bullets designed for hunting when hunting. I also know their performance envelope, min and max velocity design criteria. Then I use that data to inform my maximum range, with a 10% higher than minimum design velocity setting my max range for that cartridge and bullet. It helps insure I will have good terminal performance once the bullet arrives on target.

You get outside bullet design parameters and the odds of bullets doing weird things go up imo. That could be too low or too high impact velocities, hunting with bullets not designed for hunting, etc. I will say the best mule deer hunter I know uses .22 caliber varmint bullets. I think he is nuts, but his wall says otherwise. So sure, match bullets can be successfully used for hunting. As I inferred earlier, with respect to match bullets used for hunting, the smaller the game and/or heavier the bullet, the better things tend to work. Hunting bullets simply give you better odds of good bullet performance imo.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. From what I have witnessed. If you take a 180 Accubond verses a 215 or 230 Berger out of a 300 win mag and shoot elk between 100 to 600 yards the internal damage will be greater from the 215 than the 180. Which is what I want. The further you go out the more the 215 shines. I’m not saying hunting bullets don’t work, they definitely do. I am saying the 215/230 have worked better for me and the people I hunt with.

To get on back track I don’t know why this wouldn’t be the same with the .223 and heavy for caliber match bullets within reason. Although some people’s reason is different than others


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[Castle Rock]

There is a reason the 77 TMK was developed, and it wasn’t for target shooting, but it had to be classed as such so it wouldn’t upset the pacifists

 

[Formidilosus]

There is a reason the 77 TMK was developed, and it wasn’t for target shooting, but it had to be classed as such so it wouldn’t upset the pacifists

Ding.

 

[Tmac]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. From what I have witnessed. If you take a 180 Accubond verses a 215 or 230 Berger out of a 300 win mag and shoot elk between 100 to 600 yards the internal damage will be greater from the 215 than the 180. Which is what I want. The further you go out the more the 215 shines. I’m not saying hunting bullets don’t work, they definitely do. I am saying the 215/230 have worked better for me and the people I hunt with.

To get on back track I don’t know why this wouldn’t be the same with the .223 and heavy for caliber match bullets within reason. Although some people’s reason is different than others


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I think we agree more than not. I was just trying to explain to one poster why a manfu would say it’s for target shooting, yet some hunters say it works well. I probably added more confusion than I cleared up...