.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[cod0396]

Very well. A little less temporary stretch cavity than at higher velocities, but still very good.

When you say less TSC damage, is the actual wound channel smaller? I was under the impression that TSC was essentially the same as the permanent cavity in violently fragmenting bullets like the TMK.

 

[Formidilosus]

When you say less TSC damage, is the actual wound channel smaller? I was under the impression that TSC was essentially the same as the permanent cavity in violently fragmenting bullets like the TMK.

The temporary stretch cavity and permanent crush cavity will be more similar with fragmenting bullets than with non fragmenting such as monolithics, however the permanent cavity will be smaller than temporary in all.

In this specific case however, the wound from a bullet with 200-300fps less MV will produce smaller wounds at the same range as bullets launched faster.

 

[Slappy]

I have not read the thread in its entirety, however I have been hunting whitetail with .223 for the past 5 years. I shoot an 11.5” bcm with 70gr Barnes TSX.
I have never lost a deer with it, but I have seen inconsistent blood trails. From past hunts, busting a shoulder leads to a short track job and a good blood trail. A behind the shoulder double lung took a good 40-50 yards for him to open up and start finding consistent blood.

overall I’m pleased with the setup.

 

[Castle Rock]

You would probably find a bullet like the 77TMK or 75 ELD makes for more blood and quicker kills

 

[fightthenoise]

I have not read the thread in its entirety, however I have been hunting whitetail with .223 for the past 5 years. I shoot an 11.5” bcm with 70gr Barnes TSX.
I have never lost a deer with it, but I have seen inconsistent blood trails. From past hunts, busting a shoulder leads to a short track job and a good blood trail. A behind the shoulder double lung took a good 40-50 yards for him to open up and start finding consistent blood.

overall I’m pleased with the setup.

Short barrel + heavy for caliber + monolithic is asking a lot of a projectile. Barnes claims 1800 FPS but most folks that have killed a lot of animals with them like 2000-2200 FPS for reliable expansion. Might explain some of your blood trail inconsistencies

 

[BjornF16]

Monolithic bullets really should be light for caliber...

 

[Lawnboi]

Still trying to convince myself to carry some 75 eldms this fall for mulies but just can’t yet.

I’ll probably end up carrying my 15 pound prs gun.

 

[DJL2]

@Lawnboi - carrying a 15 lb PRS gun would be all the motivation I need to shoot something, almost anything, smaller. Heh. I frequent "The Hide," so I know that the world is filled with barrel chested freedom fighters that can carry their 18 lb PRS gun hunting with no problem (because they have the most experience with it), no fatigue for as many hours/miles as is required. I'm just not one of them.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this over the weekend. I think the American tendency towards over gunning for game is tied at least partly how a lot of us learned to place shots - e.g. from any angle (Texas heart shot), drive the bullet through shoulders, etc. - as well as the caliber and projectiles choices we traditionally had. It sort of kindled a love affair for maximum penetration, maximum weight retention (bonded core, monolithic, etc.) at the expense of wounding.

I suspect there were a lot of folks trying to hunt a .270 the same way they did a .30-30 or even .45-70 (to use just one hypothetical). If we as hunters hadn't been trying to drive lighter, softer bullets at high velocity through bone or lengthwise through the entire animal, perhaps we wouldn't have had so many bullet "failures" and our concept of bullet construction and "enough" gun would be different.

Just an idea. I think I'll spend more time with my AR-15...just to get in more training volume and challenge myself as a shooter in a way that isn't constrained to a dozen or so rounds in a training session. I'll still my .30-06 and 7mm RM out though, just because I like them.

 

[Lawnboi]

@DJL2 only lowland Mulie hunting, but still would suck.

I just can see circumstances where it would be nice to not have to worry about busting through a shoulder.

 

[TxxAgg]

Blackhills 77gr TMK is just fine in a Tikka.

Thanks. They shoot great. These are the first 20 shots from my new T3x 223 at 100yds. Adjusted scope after 1st shot and after 10th shot.

 

[False_Cast]

Reminds me that I need to get the Accraglas mixed for the Montucky onto which Shaen spun a 1:7” Rock.

 

[Formidilosus]

I just can see circumstances where it would be nice to not have to worry about busting through a shoulder.

There isn’t a 300lb ungulate alive that will stop a 77gr TMK in the humerus.

Thanks. They shoot great. These are the first 20 shots from my new T3x 223 at 100yds.

That’s pretty solid.

 

[DJL2]

I remember recently watching an outdoor channel where a gentleman sat a stand with a Barret .50 BMG - I watched out of morbid curiosity piqued by this thread and others.

A pretty nice buck made a perfect broadside präsentation, took an "OK" shot and went on a short dead run. Any number of much, much smaller calibers could have left that deer DRT - and perhaps would have in his hands instead of 40 lbs of rifle and optics. Using a big 50 on deer might get the YouTube money flowing, but it sure didn't help him in the field. A 140 ELD-M behind the shoulder likely would have been cleaner, but that's just my gut talking.

 

[Castle Rock]

Still trying to convince myself to carry some 75 eldms this fall for mulies but just can’t yet.

I’ll probably end up carrying my 15 pound prs gun.

There is no way I would choose the Hornady over a TMK as a hunting bullet.

 

[False_Cast]

There is no way I would choose the Hornady over a TMK as a hunting bullet.

Why?

 

[alexanderg23]

Speed kills. The more mass behind it the better. Proper bullet construction helps. I don’t like eating lead, so I think I give up some lethality for copper, but they still die,...so far.

 

[Castle Rock]

The TMK penetrates substantially better, particularly when driven hard, and expansion is still spectacular

 

[TheGDog]

What would those of you with experience using a .223 Rem of the 55gr or 62gr Barnes TSX variety say should be the distance to limit a shot to, on... let's say a nicer sized SoCal Mule Deer in the weight range of... maybe.. 160-200 Lbs? Though they are rare for me, more like 130-140Lbs usually.

I've been tempted to try the .223 Rem in the thicker environments I hunt it where the distances are short. Pretty sure it would do fine there due to short distances. But I'm curious what the practical distances are considered for that round for when I'm in a more Open Country Desert Hills type of setting where they tend to present themselves significantly farther out like 200yd-600yd?

 

[Lawnboi]

There is no way I would choose the Hornady over a TMK as a hunting bullet.

I guess I need to buy some tmk

 

[fightthenoise]

What would those of you with experience using a .223 Rem of the 55gr or 62gr Barnes TSX variety say should be the distance to limit a shot to, on... let's say a nicer sized SoCal Mule Deer in the weight range of... maybe.. 160-200 Lbs? Though they are rare for me, more like 130-140Lbs usually.

I've been tempted to try the .223 Rem in the thicker environments I hunt it where the distances are short. Pretty sure it would do fine there due to short distances. But I'm curious what the practical distances are considered for that round for when I'm in a more Open Country Desert Hills type of setting where they tend to present themselves significantly farther out like 200yd-600yd?

Put your velocity into a ballistics app and find out where the bullet drops below 2k FPS and that’s your max range, given you can shoot that far.