.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

fshaw

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Jan 26, 2015
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Been working on loads for the 64gr BSB in a Kimber Montana .223 9 twist. Frustrating at this point with Varget and 8208. Even worse results with H4895. About to start testing different seating depth to see if I can get them down to 1" or so.

Just scored a box of 77gr TMK. Form was kind enough to share some 8208 load data. Anyone willing to share charge weights, seating depths or other powders used? I understand that each rifle is unique and that I'm responsible for my own safety.

Also got a box of 62gr Sciroccos that I'll get to eventually along with some TTSX if I can't get the TMKs or BSBs to group.

Thanks.

Frank
 

Juan_ID

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I’ve seen mention of the 75 eldm seated longer but has anyone had much luck while seating them to the factory mag length? I have a few rounds loaded that I’m hoping to shoot later today, some are mag length and a few that are .020” off the lands. Aside from them looking strange I wouldn’t mind if the stock mag length shot good
 
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Lawnboi

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I’ve seen mention of the 75 eldm seated longer but has anyone had much luck while seating them to the factory mag length? I have a few rounds loaded that I’m hoping to shoot later today, some are mag length and a few that are .020” off the lands. Aside from them looking strange I wouldn’t mind if the stock mag length shot good
I don’t think you see many at mag length because it puts the ogive in the case neck. Iv only tried them .010 off the lands so far and they have shot. My loaded round is 2.4 something if I remember right. Behind 24 grains of varget it put up a 2.5” 6 shot group at 400 a few weeks ago.
 

Juan_ID

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I don’t think you see many at mag length because it puts the ogive in the case neck. Iv only tried them .010 off the lands so far and they have shot. My loaded round is 2.4 something if I remember right. Behind 24 grains of varget it put up a 2.5” 6 shot group at 400 a few weeks ago.
Gotchya, the average lengths are 2.293” for the mag length rounds and 2.424” for the longer, I only did 3 different charges to start. If one of the 3 shoots well enough I’ll likely just run with it as I just want to load a bunch and shoot it.
 

fshaw

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Jan 26, 2015
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Loaded up 77gr TMKs with near Hodgdon data max of 8028, Varget and 322. Should get to try them out over the weekend and have hopes that at least one will shoot well in my 9 twist Montana. Also loaded a few 62gr Sciroccos with Varget. Since my shots are typically short I don't need sub MOA but it would sure be nice. Started with .02 jump.
 

Lawnboi

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Gotchya, the average lengths are 2.293” for the mag length rounds and 2.424” for the longer, I only did 3 different charges to start. If one of the 3 shoots well enough I’ll likely just run with it as I just want to load a bunch and shoot it.
Curious what you get if your running any xbr. 24 of varget has been pretty universal for me across 75/77s
 

Juan_ID

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Curious what you get if your running any xbr. 24 of varget has been pretty universal for me across 75/77s
I am using varget too, that’s all I had laying around. 24gr shot the best by far, so I’m going to do a ladder test and see if I can find a nice little sweet spot. But overall I’m happy with how it shot the one group, almost even more surprised at how crappy the other 2 shot though haha.
 

Juan_ID

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Well you SOBs talked me into it! Haha!!

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So what’s the latest on this @Ryan Avery ?
 

fshaw

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Jan 26, 2015
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Looks like Varget will be the best powder for me as well, somewhere in the 23.5-24 grain range. It also looks like I have one of the earlier Montanas that is going to take a bit of work to get sorted out to shoot well. Random flyers. Disappointing but I like the rifle so I'll do/have done the required work. I'll be starting with a bedding job and hope that does it. May end up with an 8 twist factory contour on it before it's all over. Hope not though. Anyone rebarreled one or have a barrel recommendation? I have a couple of Hart barrels on other rifles that have not disappointed.
 

Formidilosus

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@Formidilosus

What are you seeing for round counts to burn out a tikka factory lite barrel?

No clue. I’ve seen a bunch and while some have been rebarreled none were due to being shot out. My original T3 had a bit over 14k verified rounds on it (without so much as a patch through it) and had opened up from .7 moa when new to 1.4’ish moa- both are average for ten rounds groups. I was looking at replacement after the season, but had the barrel threaded for a can, and it went right back to sub moa for ten rounds.
 

TheGDog

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Been a minute since I've been back to this thread.
QUESTION RE: Black Bear - Given distances like under 200yd thereabouts, something like a 62gr Barnes TTSX round should probably be able to do the job sufficiently right? I feel totally certain it'd work on our SoCal Muleys. But I've also seen how damn big things like Bear upper arm bones can be in diameter. (Have one in my Garden I brought back from D13 that's something like 4" in diameter at some of the thickest points!!! I know obviously the answer there is avoid hitting those arms, duh, but got me to thinking I wonder how tough some of those ribs or scapulas might deflect the round or slow down it's energy a lot so it might not penetrate as deeply as you'd have expected perhaps?

I mean the rule is supposed to be that if it'll kill a deer it'll kill a bear right?, so a 55gr should work likely also. But at least I've seen what those 62gr can do to a BobCat's spine, so I feel more confident because of the impressive wounding from that. In my instance it took out a whole section of it's spine! Maybe... 2" diameter crater left where the vertebrae used to be at that spot. And vertebrae are typically some pretty tough bones since each one is small and blocky/chunky in structure.
 

Jim1187

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Been a minute since I've been back to this thread.
QUESTION RE: Black Bear - Given distances like under 200yd thereabouts, something like a 62gr Barnes TTSX round should probably be able to do the job sufficiently right? I feel totally certain it'd work on our SoCal Muleys. But I've also seen how damn big things like Bear upper arm bones can be in diameter. (Have one in my Garden I brought back from D13 that's something like 4" in diameter at some of the thickest points!!! I know obviously the answer there is avoid hitting those arms, duh, but got me to thinking I wonder how tough some of those ribs or scapulas might deflect the round or slow down it's energy a lot so it might not penetrate as deeply as you'd have expected perhaps?

I mean the rule is supposed to be that if it'll kill a deer it'll kill a bear right?, so a 55gr should work likely also. But at least I've seen what those 62gr can do to a BobCat's spine, so I feel more confident because of the impressive wounding from that. In my instance it took out a whole section of it's spine! Maybe... 2" diameter crater left where the vertebrae used to be at that spot. And vertebrae are typically some pretty tough bones since each one is small and blocky/chunky in structure.
If you're confident in your ability to place it and required to go lead free it isn't a bad choice. My experiences shooting black bears with .224 diameter X bullets is limited to a half dozen mostly with the 50 grain TTSX tight behind the shoulder shots resulted in an average dead run of about 40 yards with disappointing bloodtrails fortunately I was shooting them in agricultural fields and heavy cover was not reached.
Most of the bears where average size, 150-200lbs and all were shot between 30 and 170 yards. If I set out looking to shoot bears with an expanding solid I'm reaching past the .22's and grabbing a larger rifle, for bigger and leakier exits cause big bears like thick cover around here.
 

wrhoads

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No clue. I’ve seen a bunch and while some have been rebarreled none were due to being shot out. My original T3 had a bit over 14k verified rounds on it (without so much as a patch through it) and had opened up from .7 moa when new to 1.4’ish moa- both are average for ten rounds groups. I was looking at replacement after the season, but had the barrel threaded for a can, and it went right back to sub moa for ten rounds.
Did you get it cut down as well? If so what length
 

TheGDog

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If you're confident in your ability to place it and required to go lead free it isn't a bad choice. My experiences shooting black bears with .224 diameter X bullets is limited to a half dozen mostly with the 50 grain TTSX tight behind the shoulder shots resulted in an average dead run of about 40 yards with disappointing bloodtrails fortunately I was shooting them in agricultural fields and heavy cover was not reached.
Most of the bears where average size, 150-200lbs and all were shot between 30 and 170 yards. If I set out looking to shoot bears with an expanding solid I'm reaching past the .22's and grabbing a larger rifle, for bigger and leakier exits cause big bears like thick cover around here.
Cool! Thanks man. I kind of wanted to know the opinions since I may end up being with the boy when one comes along. So was curious to know if we had the .223 Rem with us so he'd be able to possibly take the shot on a deer... if it'd be reasonable enough to allow him to attempt to place it on the bear. Taking into consideration the hunting location I'm thinking of, that distance of a run would be no problem, in terms of him reaching some ungodly thick stuff out of my line of sight.

I've had an instance of zero blood-trail even with a .30-30 on a nice-sized buck! Very angled-in shot on a Muley. About 24" of penetration, found bullet just under the hide under opposite side shoulder blade. There was no blood trail. And he only had one side of antlers, so when and where he fell, I didn't at first see him in there, because there wasn't an other side antler sticking up into the air. Actually had to make a couple passes at the area before I saw him, because of how the antler wasn't sticking up, and how well his coloration blended in with the leaves on the ground.
 

Juan_ID

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Those of you that reload the tmk’s are you needing to load them long like the eldm’s or can you go stock mag length and get decent accuracy/velocity?
 

Formidilosus

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Those of you that reload the tmk’s are you needing to load them long like the eldm’s or can you go stock mag length and get decent accuracy/velocity?

They’re all mag length. That’s what they were designed for.
 
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