.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[RedRidge]

Adding another data point. Held on the shoulder from about 30 yards. Broke shoulder and got top of the heart. Deer ran 20 yards.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

What an awesome thread! Next time I catch grief for my 16" Grendel 123gr eld-m combo this thread is going to be forwarded haha. I'm apparently 'compensating'.

One thing I haven't seen any discussion on is bullet weight retention or recovered bullet pics. I understand it may not be that important if 77gr essentially disappears over it's ~14-18" of travel but just curious what's typically left after x amount of penetration at x amount of impact velocities?

 

[Formidilosus]

just curious what's typically left after x amount of penetration at x amount of impact velocities?

The base of the bullet and about 30’ish grains generally. It’s about the same regardless of 2700fps impact or 1,800. But, all the weight retention and diameter does is obscure what actually matters- acceptable penetration depth and wound channel size and shape.

From the last elk I posted above, 18” barrel, 287 yards.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

The base of the bullet and about 30’ish grains generally. It’s about the same regardless of 2700fps impact or 1,800. But, all the weight retention and diameter does is obscure what actually matters- acceptable penetration depth and wound channel size and shape.

From the last elk I posted above, 18” barrel, 287 yards.

View attachment 359938

View attachment 359939

Great info, without breaking out the calculator what was impact velocity and did you weigh that little sucker? or am I reading right ~30-ish grains remaining? How many inches approx. did it go?

Also, what's the exit ratio on say deer size game? Half and half, 25%, 75%?

 

[Formidilosus]

Great info, without breaking out the calculator what was impact velocity and did you weigh that little sucker? or am I reading right ~30-ish grains remaining?

Around 1,900fps impact. And yes, around 30 grains.

How many inches approx. did it go?

17 +/- inches, through scapula and ribs.

Also, what's the exit ratio on say deer size game? Half and half, 25%, 75%?

Pure broadside, ribs only- most exit. Catch either scapula and it’ll be sitting under the offside skin.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Around 1,900fps impact. And yes, around 30 grains.




17 +/- inches, through scapula and ribs.





Pure broadside, ribs only- most exit. Catch either scapula and it’ll be sitting under the offside skin.

thanks awesome info/resource, and this thread the same, I'd like to take this a bunch further after the next couple days and into the new year, we're hitting an evolutionary curve in understanding terminal ballistics on a broader scale and this a fantastic thread to show so much of what the majority still may be missing out on, happy holidays beeatches, back soon

 

[woods89]

@Formidilosus , and anybody else who has experience, is there a clear winner between the 69 TMK and the 73 ELD-M for those of us unfortunates who have 1-9 twist barrels? 75 Gold dots are unobtainable, apparently.

I've given serious thought to a rebarrel, or even just a new fast twist rifle, but I recently bought a pair of Leica Geovids (no regrets!) so I may have to wait on that for awhile. I won't be killing anything larger than deer with this setup.

 

[mt100gr.]

@Formidilosus , and anybody else who has experience, is there a clear winner between the 69 TMK and the 73 ELD-M for those of us unfortunates who have 1-9 twist barrels? 75 Gold dots are unobtainable, apparently.

I've given serious thought to a rebarrel, or even just a new fast twist rifle, but I recently bought a pair of Leica Geovids (no regrets!) so I may have to wait on that for awhile. I won't be killing anything larger than deer with this setup.

Not sure if your rifle likes them, but the 73gr Berger OTM is pretty ferocious on deer, too. Not a great number of samples for me, but in discussing it with Form prior to using it, he had some experience with it too. It's somewhere back in the pages of this thread, I believe.

 

[woods89]

Not sure if your rifle likes them, but the 73gr Berger OTM is pretty ferocious on deer, too. Not a great number of samples for me, but in discussing it with Form prior to using it, he had some experience with it too. It's somewhere back in the pages of this thread, I believe.

That's actually what I used on a doe this year. She died within 50 yds but I didn't get an exit.

I had hoped for a little better penetration, but I may be falling into the trap of not being satisfied with dead animals.

My rifle does shoot them very well.

 

[woods89]

I added one tonight.

I had intended to use the 77 TMK's in my 1-9 twist CZ. Initially I thought they would work, but as I shot some volume I realized this rifle/bullet combo just wasn't delivering acceptable precision. I have some 69 gr TMK that I need to load up and try. This rifle does shoot 73 gr Berger OTMs very well though, so they got the nod.

Shot was about 100 yds, impact velocity 2600ish. Whitetail doe was broadside. At the shot she ran about 50 yds, stood there for a few seconds, and tipped over.

The bullet entered just behind the shoulder, tore a nice hole through both lungs, and did not exit.

I intended to take a few more photos, but all I wound up with was one of the lungs after field dressing.View attachment 353177
Edited to add- It's an absolute blast to hunt with something with virtually no recoil and mild noise. Also, if I legally could have filled another tag I easily could have, as the 6 other deer in the field all stood around trying to figure out what happened. I will use it again, although I do think I will try to use 69 TMK/73 ELD-M/75 Gold Dot in the future due to the twist rate. I would have ideally liked to have more penetration, but it is hard to argue with the results.

Here's some more details.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus , and anybody else who has experience, is there a clear winner between the 69 TMK and the 73 ELD-M for those of us unfortunates who have 1-9 twist barrels? 75 Gold dots are unobtainable, apparently.

They both kill, but you won’t get many exits. Between the two the 69gr TMK’s penetrate a bit deeper. Don’t overlook the 62gr Federal Fusion/Speer Gold Dot- though I’d probably still choose the 69gr TMK.

 

[woods89]

They both kill, but you won’t get many exits. Between the two the 69gr TMK’s penetrate a bit deeper. Don’t overlook the 62gr Federal Fusion/Speer Gold Dot- though I’d probably still choose the 69gr TMK.

Much appreciated. That's kind of what I was wondering. I'll keep an eye out for the lighter Gold dots as well.

That 1-9 twist is a real hindrance.......

 

[Formidilosus]

That 1-9 twist is a real hindrance.......

They suck.

 

[woods89]

They suck.

I have 4 kids, I think 2 223s might be a good idea. I may have a T3 compact in my future.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have 4 kids, I think 2 223s might be a good idea. I may have a T3 compact in my future.

This is the way.

 

[BigNate]

Pure broadside, ribs only- most exit. Catch either scapula and it’ll be sitting under the offside skin.

Not always. I hit mine as she turned to leave. It exited through the joint about 80 yards.

 

[clperry]

They suck.

Am ordering a new barrel for my AR soon. Do you have an opinion on the larue stealth? Would like to stay as short as possible without missing out. Most deer will be under 400 yards. Thank you for your time.


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[204guy]

Much appreciated. That's kind of what I was wondering. I'll keep an eye out for the lighter Gold dots as well.

That 1-9 twist is a real hindrance.......

SPS has the 64 bsb's if you're not stretching distances.

 

[Formidilosus]

Am ordering a new barrel for my AR soon. Do you have an opinion on the larue stealth?

They are generally good to very good barrels. Gas port can be a bit larger than needed, but they do function.

 

[cmahoney]

Do any of you guys use a .223 AI with an 8 twist?


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