.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[Tmac]

anyone seen the CZ 600? they have a 1-7" twist .223 option, might be a pretty delivery system for heavy .22 cal bullets like the 77gr TMK, msrp 750.00 for the alpha, so likely sub 700.00 street price. i have never been around a CZ centerfire, but i like the 450 predator for killin' rats.

Seen pictures. Both CZ’s I’ve been around were 527’s, the mini-mausers. One in 221FB and one in 7.62x39. Both very accurate. That model came with a single set trigger. It was crap in regular mode, gritty take up and meh pull, it was sweetness in single set mode at about a pound of pull. Bolts were a bit stiff, but smoothed out after 250 or so rounds/manipulations. The 221 has become my favorite varmint rifle. CZ knows how to build an accurate rifle, so I’d be guardedly optimistic about the new 600’s accuracy wise. As to the rest, I have to handle it and try the trigger, etc. Aftermarket support is lacking.

 

[roosiebull]

As to the rest, I have to handle it and try the trigger, etc. Aftermarket support is lacking.

true, but the stock on the alpha looks promising dimension wise... kinda ugly, but that's way down my list of priorities.... i'm a little optimistic. i want one right now, just to have something bigger than a rimfire to get some trigger time.... i would rather be shooting than looking for powder and primers in stock lots of .223/.556 on the shelves lately, a .223 bolt gun is mighty attractive to me right now

 

[260madman]

Scheel’s in Rochester MN was loaded with ammo today. They had quite a bit of everything if it was a popular chambering. Powder was slim pickings.

 

[Tmac]

true, but the stock on the alpha looks promising dimension wise... kinda ugly, but that's way down my list of priorities.... i'm a little optimistic. i want one right now, just to have something bigger than a rimfire to get some trigger time.... i would rather be shooting than looking for powder and primers in stock lots of .223/.556 on the shelves lately, a .223 bolt gun is mighty attractive to me right now

Are the CZ 600’s even available? GunBroker had a Ruger American 5.56 bolt rifle for $619 today. Howa Mini action is another one to check on. Have not seen a Tikka 223 in quite a while. Don’t know if Savage makes a fast twist, but if they do that’s an option too. Good luck.

 

[roosiebull]

Are the CZ 600’s even available? GunBroker had a Ruger American 5.56 bolt rifle for $619 today. Howa Mini action is another one to check on. Have not seen a Tikka 223 in quite a while. Don’t know if Savage makes a fast twist, but if they do that’s an option too. Good luck.

i don't think they are available yet. the Howa mini is a good option depending on twist. i will probably wait to get lucky finding a tikka or wait for the CZ to hit shelves.... i wish Kimber offered them in the hunter series, with a fast twist, it would be a good seller

 

[Tmac]

i don't think they are available yet. the Howa mini is a good option depending on twist. i will probably wait to get lucky finding a tikka or wait for the CZ to hit shelves.... i wish Kimber offered them in the hunter series, with a fast twist, it would be a good seller

Howa makes a fast twist iirc. One can buy a barreled mini action from Brownells and slap it into a chassis, or buy from Howa with a chassis or stock.

 

[Macintosh]

So, I hesitate to take this off topic but it seems relevant. I’ve always erred on the side of using just barely enough gun—20ga versus 12, etc, because it works. So this thread resonates. Question is, if a 223 using fragmenting lead bullets is something of a “sweet spot” with regard to plenty of deadness with maximum shootability, what is the equivalent gun for elk at sub400yds for those of us choosing mono bullets specifically to minimize meat damage and possible lead fragments in meat? Is it also a 223? If not, what has been closest? I shoot quite a bit but I dont have, and probably will never have, the opportunity to shoot enough elk or deer to be an authority on this, so if any of you guys that seem to shoot critters 3 days a week plus saturday have insight I’d be interested in your take.

 

[BjornF16]

So, I hesitate to take this off topic but it seems relevant. I’ve always erred on the side of using just barely enough gun—20ga versus 12, etc, because it works. So this thread resonates. Question is, if a 223 using fragmenting lead bullets is something of a “sweet spot” with regard to plenty of deadness with maximum shootability, what is the equivalent gun for elk at sub400yds for those of us choosing mono bullets specifically to minimize meat damage and possible lead fragments in meat? Is it also a 223? If not, what has been closest? I shoot quite a bit but I dont have, and probably will never have, the opportunity to shoot enough elk or deer to be an authority on this, so if any of you guys that seem to shoot critters 3 days a week plus saturday have insight I’d be interested in your take.

Mac

Your answer is within this thread…have you read it all from beginning?

 

[Macintosh]

I read more than half. honestly, a search didnt turn it up and I didnt see it in the first 40 pages, or the last couple. Saw a couple posts on monos and mentions of ttsx and a few others, but dont recall much concencus on it other than generalities. is there a specific post or page (or era ) in the thread you can point me to?

 

[Big_wals]

Wow. Just finished reading this thread from beginning to end. What a wealth of information! Nothing to add really, as I dont own a .22 cal centerfire, but I think yall have convinced me I need one!

In all seriousness tho, I have been trying to decide what to buy for my wife, who is very recoil sensitive and doesn't enjoy shooting my .243s. Had been thinking about a 6.5 creed and throwing a brake on it for her, but I personally dont like rifles to be any louder than necessary. I guess yall have saved her from that fate lol. Now to start looking for loading components for a new caliber.....

 

[BjornF16]

I read more than half. honestly, a search didnt turn it up and I didnt see it in the first 40 pages, or the last couple. Saw a couple posts on monos and mentions of ttsx and a few others, but dont recall much concencus on it other than generalities. is there a specific post or page (or era ) in the thread you can point me to?

A quick search in this thread for "lead free" turned up several posts:

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

Worked like a charm. He was on the the run. Full pass through. Is that the youth rifle? Nice work!

www.rokslide.com

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

Interesting, a swift with a 55grainer has to be smoking and not apples to apples with a .223. But I get your point. What is his average shot distances on elk? No clue, I’ve never asked him. I know my own personal average shot on elk is less than 100 yards, but I can rifle hunt elk from late...

www.rokslide.com

 

[Macintosh]

A quick search in this thread for "lead free" turned up several posts:

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

Worked like a charm. He was on the the run. Full pass through. Is that the youth rifle? Nice work!

www.rokslide.com

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

Interesting, a swift with a 55grainer has to be smoking and not apples to apples with a .223. But I get your point. What is his average shot distances on elk? No clue, I’ve never asked him. I know my own personal average shot on elk is less than 100 yards, but I can rifle hunt elk from late...

www.rokslide.com

thanks for the links. Yes, but both of those posts are specific to .22 cal bullets and dont directly answer my question. Closest was the comment that lead free “sucks” and a luke-warm mention that a 6.5mm lrx has been ok. my question was not what leadfree was best for .22 cf cartridges, it was what mono projectile/caliber was the minimum sweetest-spot for elk. If that is too far afield for this thread I’ll post elsewhere.

 

[BjornF16]

thanks for the links. Yes, but both of those posts are specific to .22 cal bullets and dont directly answer my question. Closest was the comment that lead free “sucks” and a luke-warm mention that a 6.5mm lrx has been ok. my question was not what leadfree was best for .22 cf cartridges, it was what mono projectile/caliber was the minimum sweetest-spot for elk. If that is too far afield for this thread I’ll post elsewhere.

You're posting in a .223 specific thread...and it appears that no one is using lead free in .223 on elk (at least those who have posted here). So you can draw your own conclusions there.

In the 6.5CM/260 thread, there is this:

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Really good stuff, guys. I wish we could get Pat Sinclair's Grizzly bear in here! :LOL: Keep posting them up!

www.rokslide.com

Perhaps you could start a new thread asking for what minimum cartridge folks have used lead free options on elk...

 

[cod0396]

So, I hesitate to take this off topic but it seems relevant. I’ve always erred on the side of using just barely enough gun—20ga versus 12, etc, because it works. So this thread resonates. Question is, if a 223 using fragmenting lead bullets is something of a “sweet spot” with regard to plenty of deadness with maximum shootability, what is the equivalent gun for elk at sub400yds for those of us choosing mono bullets specifically to minimize meat damage and possible lead fragments in meat? Is it also a 223? If not, what has been closest? I shoot quite a bit but I dont have, and probably will never have, the opportunity to shoot enough elk or deer to be an authority on this, so if any of you guys that seem to shoot critters 3 days a week plus saturday have insight I’d be interested in your take.

I'm not sure how far you'd have to go, but consider the fact that .308 caliber TSX/TTSX bullets don't make wound channels as large as the 77gr TMK out of a .223/5.56. Despite packing over twice as much energy as a 77gr TMK, the .308 monolithics (TSX, GMX, etc.) don't even match it in performance. Unfortunately, the meat damage produced by TMKs and similar bullets is one of the reasons why they are so devastatingly effective at ensuring ethical and fast kills. You'll have to go up quite a bit in caliber for similar outcomes with non fragmenting lead free bullets. Something more powerful than a .308, for sure. You'll also want to go with light for caliber bullets, since velocity is very much your friend with monos.

 

[BLJ]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

 

[cod0396]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

I'm not saying it's not enough, but if his goal is to match the raw terminal performance of the 77gr TMK (or similarly constructed bullets), then it doesn't quite get there.

 

[False_Cast]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

Comically dense interpretation of anything in this entire thread. 10/10

 

[BLJ]

Yeah. I thought the insinuation was funny, too

 

[Lawnboi]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

I wouldn’t even shoot another deer with those at 100.

 

[wind gypsy]

I wouldn’t even shoot another deer with those at 100.

Serious?