.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[Deplorable77]

Somebody left the basement door unlocked again.

Just a question, why not post the pic’s of the animals you wound? Why ignore it? We all see them. We see the animals that everyone with a tikka CM 6.5 shoots 200, 400, 600 plus, walks away and wonders whey the animal didn’t fall over like the internet said it would.

 

[Spoonbill]

Just a question, why not post the pic’s of the animals you wound? Why ignore it? We all see them. We see the animals that everyone with a tikka CM 6.5 shoots 200, 400, 600 plus, walks away and wonders whey the animal didn’t fall over like the internet said it would.

I think I see what you are getting at. The problem isn’t always the caliber, it is that people don’t practice with their guns enough.
Part of the point of this thread was to spend more time shooting and a 223 lets you do that, current ammo craziness excluded.
It comes down to practice and knowing your equipment, you can’t buy experience.

 

[Haney]

Just a question, why not post the pic’s of the animals you wound? Why ignore it? We all see them. We see the animals that everyone with a tikka CM 6.5 shoots 200, 400, 600 plus, walks away and wonders whey the animal didn’t fall over like the internet said it would.

Somebody left the basement door unlocked again.

You beat me to it , Damn Trolls are always looking for attention.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Just a question, why not post the pic’s of the animals you wound? Why ignore it? We all see them. We see the animals that everyone with a tikka CM 6.5 shoots 200, 400, 600 plus, walks away and wonders whey the animal didn’t fall over like the internet said it would.

really? How do you take a picture of a animal that gets away?

It’s been a minute since any animal has made it over 30 yards, and that was with the 300 win mag slinging 200’s.

But if ur gonna be an argumentative ass, at least woe us with some stories of 223’s and match bullets being not enough. No guessing.. Cuz at 28 pages now, nobodies using 77tmk and claiming “not enough”

fact is most dudes, are over powered, over scoped and way under skilled. Way underskilled.

 

[TxxAgg]

Another data point. Just a lowly whitetail doe @ 125 yds and 100# even. 16.5" barrel. Very pleased with the performance.

 

[BAKPAKR]

My daughter shot a whitetail buck this fall with a 77 gr TMK out of a 223 at 178 yards. She was easily able to follow the short blood trail.

Entrance:



Exit:

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Last centerfire kill on ungulates for the season. 75gr bthp, 2750 launch. Bang flop.

shoulda brought more gun, then it would quarter and hike back by itself.

9 for 9 for the season, cumulatively less then 50 yards traveled total. And one that dashed had it’s heart mushed.

Still no threat of a boomer entering the stable.

 

[Castle Rock]

They are a bigger version of the 77gr. A bit deeper penetrating than ELD-M of the same class.






What animals, ranges, and angles? Did you open them up to check the full wound paths? TMK’s definitely fragment more and faster than equivalent Scenars. Exits may be larger with a Scenar on some animals/shots due to the front end fragmenting on the TMK’s earlier and leaving mostly the base to exit. Scenars actually are one of the “hardest” match bullets made. Not usual to see little to no upset for 4-8 inches of initial penetration.

Ok I looked back in my diary, and the bullet I used and was referring to was the 130 grain gamechanger, I don’t know if it is the same as a TMK but it definitely showed minimal expansion out of my 260 AI
Ranges were in the 200-300 m and shots were chest area on female chital deer, which are fairly lightly built
As a result I stopped using them for hunting.
These were from the first batch available if that makes a difference

 

[woods89]

Ok I looked back in my diary, and the bullet I used and was referring to was the 130 grain gamechanger, I don’t know if it is the same as a TMK but it definitely showed minimal expansion out of my 260 AI
Ranges were in the 200-300 m and shots were chest area on female chital deer, which are fairly lightly built
As a result I stopped using them for hunting.
These were from the first batch available if that makes a difference

Good to know. That makes sense.

The 2 deer I killed with 130 TMK definitely had significant expansion. I'd say they have the Gamechangers beat on that front.

 

[Formidilosus]

Ok I looked back in my diary, and the bullet I used and was referring to was the 130 grain gamechanger, I don’t know if it is the same as a TMK but it definitely showed minimal expansion out of my 260 AI
Ranges were in the 200-300 m and shots were chest area on female chital deer, which are fairly lightly built
As a result I stopped using them for hunting.
These were from the first batch available if that makes a difference

The Gamechangers are a relatively tough bullet. Not what I look for and not the same as TMK’s. The TMK’s of all weights are generally just a bit deeper penetrating than similar weight ELD-M’s.

 

[Spoonbill]

Thought these photos would be interesting for comparison purposes. Friend shot a deer at 290 yards with a 168gr ttsx out of a 308. This is his first shot on the heart, he has to shoot it again after it got up and ran. It looked like the bullet did not expand when he cut open the heart.
Ancedotal evidence, but bullet construction seems to trump fr lbs of energy.

 

[TxxAgg]

Pig at 90 yds. He was good sized...probably 180-200#

16.5" barrel 223 with the Blackhills TMK. No exit. Ran about 120 yds.

 

[Castle Rock]

Nice pig

 

[dla]

Thought these photos would be interesting for comparison purposes. Friend shot a deer at 290 yards with a 168gr ttsx out of a 308. This is his first shot on the heart, he has to shoot it again after it got up and ran. It looked like the bullet did not expand when he cut open the heart.
Ancedotal evidence, but bullet construction seems to trump fr lbs of energy.

If the chamber is empty when the bullet hits - you get what you posted. If the chamber is full - the heart pops. Little to do with bullet construction.

 

[fightthenoise]

If the chamber is empty when the bullet hits - you get what you posted. If the chamber is full - the heart pops. Little to do with bullet construction.

Looks like the bullet passes through an atrium and a ventricle. Seems like low odds both are empty. But that’s an interesting postulation. Haven’t heard that before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spoonbill]

If the chamber is empty when the bullet hits - you get what you posted. If the chamber is full - the heart pops. Little to do with bullet construction.

Not sure if I am following you 100% on this. Even if the bullet hit when their was little to no blood in the heart, the entry and exit would show more damage if the bullet used was designed to expand at a lower impact velocity.
I can be off on my assumptions, can you explain a little more?

 

[dla]

Not sure if I am following you 100% on this. Even if the bullet hit when their was little to no blood in the heart, the entry and exit would show more damage if the bullet used was designed to expand at a lower impact velocity.
I can be off on my assumptions, can you explain a little more?

Blood is a incompressible liquid. The heart muscle is quite flexible, but only up to rate at which it tears instead of stretching (material limit). When the chamber is full, the displacement of the bullet is transmitted to surrounding muscle tissue at the propagation velocity of blood. This mechanical movement is faster than the muscle can stretch, so it tears. That is how a heart pops.

I agree that the bullet didn't expand much, so the question should be about the velocity it was launched and how fast it would be moving after a 290yd trip. A 20" barrel would be 2600fps and 290yds later it would be doing 1900-2100 depending on BC.

 

[TxxAgg]

Shot one more pig last night and another 4 this morning with the little 77tmk. It continues to impress me. These weren't large...all around 50#. The blood trails were great.

 

[Spoonbill]

Blood is a incompressible liquid. The heart muscle is quite flexible, but only up to rate at which it tears instead of stretching (material limit). When the chamber is full, the displacement of the bullet is transmitted to surrounding muscle tissue at the propagation velocity of blood. This mechanical movement is faster than the muscle can stretch, so it tears. That is how a heart pops.

I agree that the bullet didn't expand much, so the question should be about the velocity it was launched and how fast it would be moving after a 290yd trip. A 20" barrel would be 2600fps and 290yds later it would be doing 1900-2100 depending on BC.

Thank’s for clarifying about the heart, that makes sense.

 

[SCHIZZLEAN]

I agree that the bullet didn't expand much, so the question should be about the velocity it was launched and how fast it would be moving after a 290yd trip. A 20" barrel would be 2600fps and 290yds later it would be doing 1900-2100 depending on BC.

THIS, all Day long...