.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, chupacabra, elk, walrus and moose.

[yeti12]

6.5 PRC with factory 143 eldx. Never again. Did this to both mule deer we shot with it last year.

Light weight calibers from here on out. I dropped to the smallest legal caliber I could for this next season. This thread has been a great educator on bullet selection and performance in tissue. The fundamental premise is spot on. Shoot a lot and shoot accurately and the right bullet will do the intended purpose. The idea that larger calibers offer more wiggle room has been fairly put to bed in the pages in this discussion.


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What distance? Or impact velocity?

 

[Old Dog]

Reading through this entire thread and checking out the various photos, the idea that anyone would want a cartridge that produced more devastation than the 22cal TMK is insane to me. The idea that a larger caliber would provide a "margin of error" is also laughable. One of the worse shots I ever made on a deer was with a 300 WM at 75 yards. Snap shot and placed it too far back, plenty of FP of energy there but that deer didn't drop it ran for miles before we caught up to it. A 223 FMJ through the heart/lungs would have given a better result.

 

[barnguy]

IDK, I've had exactly the same experience with 308 and 30-06 on bears. Didn't seem to offer any wiggle room.

Like I say about bears: Hit em right, and they're not tough, hit em wrong, and they are.
Like pointed out above, I've found it surprisingly easy to hit them wrong, especially when you've been shooting deer and other cervids for years.

Aren't there vitals more forward than most animals? I don't have any experience with bear.

 

[2y2c]

Aren't there vitals more forward than most animals? I don't have any experience with bear.

Post 7219 should clear it up for you. Two pages back.

 

[MEdude]

Aren't there vitals more forward than most animals? I don't have any experience with bear.

Also post #7223 provides clarity. Was very informative to me, as I’ve neither shot, nor cut a bear.

 

[pbroski]

Is this is an accurate representation of the anatomy of a black bear? I think it is. I've shot many right where the center of the lungs are shown, and they have all gone down fast.

 

[Tobe_B]

What distance? Or impact velocity?

My wife shot hers at 180 yds. I shot mine, the one in the picture, at 250 yards. I don’t have the rifle data anymore to recall its actual velocity.


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[Nomosendero]

My wife shot hers at 180 yds. I shot mine, the one in the picture, at 250 yards. I don’t have the rifle data anymore to recall its actual velocity.


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Interesting!
I shot an Axis Buck in the shoulder last week at 170 yds with the 147ELDM with my 6.5PRC Tikka. I did not have near that much damage. Granted, this was a factory load at 2840 fps.

 

[Thegman]

Aren't there vitals more forward than most animals? I don't have any experience with bear.

No, they're a little further back. It's the too far forward shots that have caused problems for me. There may be big dramatics like the bear rolling on its back, paws waving in the air, roaring like it's all over...only to roll back on his feet and take off. Bears can survive forward shots that would likely be fine on deer.

 

[Tahr]

A bit of .223 variety from a hunt this evening. 100 yards. 60 grn Hammer Hunter. Deer ran about 30 yards.



Entry through ribs with shoulder peeled back. Bullet didn't pass through. No blood trail.

 

[TX_Diver]

Shot 10 round groups with 77 TMKs using 24.5gr N140 and 24.5gr Sta-ball match (n140 on left, match on right).

I shot 3 in each then shot the 6.5, then 3 in each group, then the 6.5, then 2 in each group then the 6.5 then 2 in each group. I noticed that each group had multiple smaller groups within it and that generally all 6 shots across both powders moved relative to each other. So I suspect that if I sat there and shot 10 rounds of each without breaking position I'd probably shrink at least the N140 group.

I will probably load another 10 of N140 and shoot them in a row just to check out of curiousity.

Here are the first 6 shots of each. The first 2 groups of 3 (shot without breaking position) are closer to the center, then the next 2 groups of 3 both shift left slightly.

Here's the final 10 round group of each with the last 4 rounds of each filled in.

 

[RedRidge]

Another critter with my pea shooter. Shot was about 80 yards walking. Sow fell where she stood at the shot. Case knife is a standard size trapper for reference.

 

[IDVortex]

“Right behind the shoulder” is way too far forward.

This one nicked the rear edge the scapula on exit, entrance was armpit in other side-
View attachment 712186


And it barely caught the front of one lung-

View attachment 712189


It also shows how small bears actually are in the body, this was a normal sized black bear, and its lungs compared to a soda can-
View attachment 712190

Never been around a bear, or seen a dead one. So needless to say, what I actually thought the size of the lungs are to this are a huge difference. I was under the impression of them being almost milk gallon sizes.

 

[RWT]

Curious who is the maker on the custom encore barrel. What is the twist rate ?

 

[rickyw]

This thread is for the good...and the bad.
I messed up. Black bear at 234 yards. Shot honestly looked good. He was biting right behind the shoulder so maybe I freckle forward?
Either way my gap was tiny and no following up shot happened. Even with extensive practice racking and shooting.lol
Thick brush and cliffs. No blood...nothing. hours of looking late last night and this morn.
77 tmk.
I'm confident this would have or could have happened with any rifle combination. I just figured it'd interest folks.

We’ve seen Forms posts with 308 caliber frangible bullet tissue destruction. A 308 frangible bullet likely would have damaged the lungs. The 375 ruger story by Luke shooting the bear behind the shoulder likely led to a poor outcome because he was likely using a stout controlled expansion bullet

And, I really don’t have a dog in this fight. Those are just my observations

 

[Formidilosus]

Never been around a bear, or seen a dead one. So needless to say, what I actually thought the size of the lungs are to this are a huge difference. I was under the impression of them being almost milk gallon sizes.

Hunters love to exaggerate how big/tough/hard to kill that animals are.

 

[Butcher8]

.223 is perfect for deer, with a few important points though. ..you have to use a slow expansion bullet. keep shots under 150 yards. obviously others here will debate but believe me. my picks are barnes tsx as mentioned above or better winchester deer season...the bullet has to be slow expanding.
what not to do...dont use varmint rounds up close, no penetrate
dont use fmj or matchkings far out. theyll wound but not good enuf
do not try headshots they nearly never work on deer anatomy
ok let flames start .

 

[Rich M]

Reading through this entire thread and checking out the various photos, the idea that anyone would want a cartridge that produced more devastation than the 22cal TMK is insane to me. The idea that a larger caliber would provide a "margin of error" is also laughable. One of the worse shots I ever made on a deer was with a 300 WM at 75 yards. Snap shot and placed it too far back, plenty of FP of energy there but that deer didn't drop it ran for miles before we caught up to it. A 223 FMJ through the heart/lungs would have given a better result.

Seems like you'd have had the same result no matter what caliber - a bad shot is a bad shot is a bad shot.

 

[RedRidge]

Curious who is the maker on the custom encore barrel. What is the twist rate ?

MGM. 20” 1-7 twist.

 

[mt100gr.]

.223 is perfect for deer, with a few important points though. ..you have to use a slow expansion bullet. keep shots under 150 yards. obviously others here will debate but believe me. my picks are barnes tsx as mentioned above or better winchester deer season...the bullet has to be slow expanding.
what not to do...dont use varmint rounds up close, no penetrate
dont use fmj or matchkings far out. theyll wound but not good enuf
do not try headshots they nearly never work on deer anatomy
ok let flames start .

This is your takeaway after reading this thread? Or your experience based on what? And what about using "match" bullets? Are they OK or too similar to "varmint rounds"?