3 bullets, 3 calibers, same result?

[MTMeatHunter]

Posting this question where I think some folks might have actual field experience around the scenario.

Let’s assume target is a broadside cow elk, shot just behind the shoulder crease in the lungs. Lower 1/3 hit. For the following bullets with their impact velocities, would the actual wound channels be noticeably different?

308 cal 168 ELD-M - 2100fps
277 cal 145 ELD-X - 2200 fps
264 cal 147 ELD-M - 2100fps

Hoping Form chimes in, but I think I have a guess what his answer might be. I actually feel a little silly asking, but I tend to overthink most everything.

 

[hereinaz]

You are definitely overthinking it cause the result is a dead cow. But, thought experiments are fun sometimes and I want to hear what others say.

 

[MTMeatHunter]

Absolutely agree! Dead cow either way, but curious specifically about the wound channels. If they’re the same, why bother bumping up from the 264? But you also hear guys like Broz swearing by the 30 cal thump. I’m just a pissant trying to learn, but I swear the animals I’ve shot with my 300 win die just the same as my creeds.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

ELD-M bullets are killers. Last year I witnessed a cow elk die from a 7RM with 162gr eldm at 505 yards. She ran down hill about 20 yard before stumbling and falling which carried her another 10 yards. Dead within seconds. Pass through with Golf ball size exit.

 

[SDHNTR]

Sweet Geezus. I'm as anal and detail oriented as they come, and I even think think this is unnecessary overthinking.

 

[bsnedeker]

ELD-M bullets are killers. Last year I witnessed a cow elk die from a 7RM with 162gr eldm at 505 yards. She ran down hill about 20 yard before stumbling and falling which carried her another 10 yards. Dead within seconds. Pass through with Golf ball size exit.

Sorry, you are 100% wrong. These ELD bullets are WAY too soft. I've killed a pile of critters with them as well, but because of the soft bullets I could have killed them way better if I'd had some harder ones. What I've come to learn is that killing stuff doesn't matter if your bullet doesn't have good weight retention.

A guy on RS told me so, you can't argue with that!

 

[MTMeatHunter]

Sweet Geezus. I'm as anal and detail oriented as they come, and I even think think this is unnecessary overthinking.

I know, right? But at the same time, most people would say that there’s a time and a place for 30 cal, and a time and a place for a 264. I’m probably one of those people. But if wound channels are the same…. Why? That’s why I’m curious about actual terminal performance differences between these, I guess!

 

[Wrench]

I've posted the pictures enough times to answer this one in color.

The better question is where do you find the primers to torch off the impossible to find powder to make this meeting happen.

 

[MTMeatHunter]

I've posted the pictures enough times to answer this one in color.

The better question is where do you find the primers to torch off the impossible to find powder to make this meeting happen.

Would you mind linking the thread here? Would love to check it out! Genuinely curious to take a look, as I rarely gut critters anymore. Now it’s biting me since I never look inside to answer my own question.

 

[woods89]

6.5 Creed/260

Some of @Wrench pics are in this thread.

My guess is if you posted a wound channel from each of those three, most people couldn't tell one from another.

 

[MTMeatHunter]

6.5 Creed/260

Some of @Wrench pics are in this thread.

My guess is if you posted a wound channel from each of those three, most people couldn't tell one from another.

Oh yeah, this is a great thread with awesome photos. I actually posted in it and commented that I haven’t seen much of a difference when it comes to killing between the 264 143 eldx and the 308 200 eldx. But I don’t have photos to substantiate that. Only animals all dead in generally under 40 yards.

Jeez, looking back through that makes me question why I, and anyone else, ever questions a Creedmoor. I have two and I could probably just stop there.

 

[Seeknelk]

Sorry, you are 100% wrong. These ELD bullets are WAY too soft. I've killed a pile of critters with them as well, but because of the soft bullets I could have killed them way better if I'd had some harder ones. What I've come to learn is that killing stuff doesn't matter if your bullet doesn't have good weight retention.

A guy on RS told me so, you can't argue with that!

What matters most is a pretty mushroom. To me.

 

[SDHNTR]

I know, right? But at the same time, most people would say that there’s a time and a place for 30 cal, and a time and a place for a 264. I’m probably one of those people. But if wound channels are the same…. Why? That’s why I’m curious about actual terminal performance differences between these, I guess!

Of course there is a time and a place for 30 cals. That time and place is when hunting bull elk. Bulls, mature ones anyways, are twice the size of cows. Deer and cows, shoot whatever you want. Bulls? .30 cals get the nod, IMO.

 

[Outdoorsman12b]

Posting this question where I think some folks might have actual field experience around the scenario.

Let’s assume target is a broadside cow elk, shot just behind the shoulder crease in the lungs. Lower 1/3 hit. For the following bullets with their impact velocities, would the actual wound channels be noticeably different?

308 cal 168 ELD-M - 2100fps
277 cal 145 ELD-X - 2200 fps
264 cal 147 ELD-M - 2100fps

Hoping Form chimes in, but I think I have a guess what his answer might be. I actually feel a little silly asking, but I tend to overthink most everything.

“Given same impact velocity-either a slightly wider wound channel at the same penetration depth, or the same width wound with more penetration depending upon which bullets are used”

That’s a quote from a post regarding differences in caliber wound channel from Form.

 

[35WhelenAI]

What I've noticed in animals reaction when hit on a non-cns shot, the larger diameter bullet at a similar velocity, makes them act more weary (for lack of a better word) from the get-go, if they go anywhere.

Something I have come to ponder, the smaller caliber bullets that expand more rapidly may well behave like a larger diameter bullet with respect to wound channel, however that larger diameter bullet going the whole way through has no downside in my experience. I've said it before, the impressive meat destruction and "vital soup" with frangible bullets in general that makes folks excited, makes for great pictures. Like somehow that cuts off blood flow to the brain any quicker than a larger bullet or a similar size bullet that holds together better and turns the heart and lungs to chunks in tatters. My experience says it doesn't do anything for harder shot angles or a more dead animal. I would go as far to say harder shot angles result in more surety when using a controlled expansion bullet versus the other option, and there's no question are not as destructive of meat.

 

[bsnedeker]

What matters most is a pretty mushroom. To me.

Yep, gotta have something to post to the gram!

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[Maidenfan539]

Ultimate Reloader did a test on YouTube with 6.5 ELD-M and ELD-X bullets with ballistic gel. Worth checking it out. He ran them at 2200 fps and 1800 fps and did a comparison on the results.

 

[Tumbleweed]

From your choices, I would say the .308 with larger frontal area and a little more weight would do more internal damage.


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[35WhelenAI]

Forget my musings from a few posts ago, this is the reality due to physics and whatever other facts can be called into the discussion. If they are equal in expansion tendencies at those very similar velocities, the bigger bullet is going produce a larger wound channel.

 

[bsnedeker]

Forget my musings from a few posts ago, this is the reality due to physics and whatever other facts can be called into the discussion. If they are equal in expansion tendencies at those very similar velocities, the bigger bullet is going produce a larger wound channel.

Dude, you're giving away my million dollar business idea! I'm going to come out with a new .309 caliber! When you're at the bullet store and you see on the shelf they've got some .308 bullets next to my new .309 bullets which are you going to pick? You're going to pick the .309s obviously!

Bigger wound channel yo! These other bullet companies are going to look like fools!

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