30.06 for Long Range Hunting?

[Matt Cashell]

Alright guys,

This forum doesn't have this back and forth BS.

Take it somewhere else.

 

[gelton]

Some examples of what I was looking for:

I would think the 30-06 would be sufficient. But long range hunter isn't my thing. That said I think you can get a bit better velocity numbers than what you listed with a little trial error from reloading. 2850 fps with a 180 grain bullet is more than doable with a 24" barrel and the right load if it shoots accurately. Better yet possibly the new Nosler ALR 190 grainers at 2800 even would be a great option as well.

Some long range hunters have used the 180 grain accubond as a go to bullet in their 300 win mag. Launching that bullet at 3000 fps will net you 1375 fps and 755 in energy.

Take a 30-06 shooting the new ALR 190 grainer at 2800 fps and at 1000 yards it will be going 1500+ fps and over 955 ft/lbs of energy. So as you can see even if the BCs are 100% correct, velocity is far from everything when it comes to long range shooting. I've played around with these numbers quite a bit back when I thought I wanted to get into long range hunter. Then I realized I'd rather go hiking than spend my days at the range and other such places trying to get proficient at it. Would just rather have to stalk closer and have perhaps have an animal or two get away during my stalk from 700 yards to sub 300 then put in the time, money, and effort to get good at that.

All that said I think the 30-06 is a great cartridge very capable of long range shots. Yep not as flat as a 300 RUM or 338 Lapua but a very capable cartridge none the less.

And this from bitterroot bulls:

With a 185 Berger running a MV of 2700, you could get to 1000 with OK impact velocity, but energy is gonna be pretty low. Still, I agree with Justin and Mike that there are much better cartridge options for long range hunting, and anybody seriously considering long range hunting should invest the time and money into proper equipment and practice.

Extending the range of your current 30-06 though is a good idea, and gets you into practicing at ranges past MPBR. I think the 30-06 running hot velocities w/ a slick 180-185 is a great option for 600 yards and in, where as Mike mentioned, the custom dial and BDC reticle systems are sufficiently precise and at their best under a fairly wide range of field conditions at those ranges.

Thanks for all of your help and advice. Signing off on the subject.

 

[hunting1]

Sorry to double up on some of Luke's points, he posted while I was typing. I will mention that I have loaded for a number of 30-06s, and getting to 2800-2850 with 180-plus pills is tough out of a sporter, IME.

Easy with 58-grs of Hunter or 61-62 grs RL22, but you do not have the energy past 600 yards! Most do not (Including me who shoots regularly) have the skill to shoot consistant in a hunting environment to humainly shoot at animals that far. Get closer and quit watching Long Range Pursuit, etc on TV.

 

[Ryan Avery]

This is the last warning to all. This is a long range hunting forum. If someone says get closer in this forum again, their post will get deleted and they will get a little vacation from RS! Go and post in the other Forums!

 

[Yellowknife]

Easy with 58-grs of Hunter or 61-62 grs RL22, but you do not have the energy past 600 yards!

I've hit 2840 fps out of my 22" sporter, but it took me a full 60 gr of Hunter under either a 180 gr Sierra Gameking or a 178 gr Amax. Found that some bullets (like the 180 gr SMK) can't take that high of charge. Other bullets hovered around 2775-2800 range, which I considered more than good enough. All that was using Ramshot data, which for the 30-06 seems to run a bit higher than published data from the bullet companies.

58 gr is was "only" good for 2750ish with my gun.

Yk

 

[luke moffat]

Easy with 58-grs of Hunter or 61-62 grs RL22, but you do not have the energy past 600 yards! Most do not (Including me who shoots regularly) have the skill to shoot consistant in a hunting environment to humainly shoot at animals that far. Get closer and quit watching Long Range Pursuit, etc on TV.

I still get closer, but sometimes I admit to watching BOTW and LRP on TV....still doesn't inspire me to shoot long range on game as I enjoy the stalk, but be fun to plink at a 4X8 sheet of plywood at 800 yards and shoot a box of ammo and see if its still unscathed

I applaud those that can shoot long range accurately. But to date haven't messed around with my abilities yet to see how I'd do. Fun to watch and I could see how its a totally different challenge than archery hunting in a totally different sort of way.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Luke that's because your scope only goes to 4 power!

 

[luke moffat]

Luke that's because your scope only goes to 4 power!

Well yeah thats the only power they make scopes isn't it

 

[Jager]

I posted real early in this thread, I must not ave hit submit, its not there. lol

The 06 is a great cartridge, perhaps a little lacking at 1000, but definitely doable. The magnums are the real flavour of the day these days, but I do not know too many that shoot them well, they seem to develop a flinch simply because magnum is stamped on the barrel. At 400 to 500 these flinches completely negate the pro's of the cartridge.

I have a 22" barrelled Rem 700 in 338/06 shooting 200g accubonds at around 2760 using ADI 2209, an Australian powder that you can actually purchase cheaper in the States than I can here, maybe give it a try.

 

[gelton]

The magnums are the real flavour of the day these days, but I do not know too many that shoot them well, they seem to develop a flinch simply because magnum is stamped on the barrel. At 400 to 500 these flinches completely negate the pro's of the cartridge.

I have a 22" barrelled Rem 700 in 338/06 shooting 200g accubonds at around 2760 using ADI 2209, an Australian powder that you can actually purchase cheaper in the States than I can here, maybe give it a try.

Thanks will do...your post reminds me of a article from chuck hawks that touches the subject of flinching and magnums vs non:
Most of the guys who can't shoot don't recover the animals they wound, but some do. It makes me wonder when a guy at a check out station tells me how lousy the .270 (or whatever) is at killing elk and that next year he is going to replace his wimpy .270 with a .300 Magnum. Then I examine his trophy and find a .270 bullet hole in the muscle of the neck that missed the vertebrae, a .270 bullet in the guts, a third .270 in a ham and finally one .300 Magnum bullet in the lungs--put there by his hunting partner. I am no forensic wizard, but I can pretty much figure out what happened.

I would much rather see an elk hunter carrying a .308 that he can shoot well, instead of a .300 Magnum that causes him to flinch. Elk are big, vital animals, but they are not indestructible. Use a reasonably adequate caliber within its energy and trajectory limits, an appropriate bullet and most of all get that bullet into a vital spot!

 

[Matt Cashell]

gelton,


You have quoted Hawks a couple of times and here is his advice on your question:

Use a reasonably adequate caliber within its energy and trajectory limits, an appropriate bullet and most of all get that bullet into a vital spot!

As far as magnums being inherently prone to inducing flinch, that is ridiculous. Hawks is blaming the wrong end of the gun when he says "a .300 Magnum that causes him to flinch." As Jaeger notes, shooters flinch, not cartridges. Furthermore, the 7 mag, which IMO is absolutely a better choice in cartridge for long range uses than the 30-06, and has similar recoil numbers to the -06.

Maybe it would clear up some of the heartburn on the thread if you cleared up if you actually want to SHOOT ELK at 1000 yards with the 30-06, as the consensus is that there are much better cartridges available to the serious long range shooter for that task.

 

[Ryan Avery]

BB, very well said!

 

[gelton]

In a word - no. I do not WANT to shoot an elk at 1,000 yds. What I WANT to do is have a 1,000 yard .06 load that I can practice with at the RANGE (ala BB's suggestion) that would also be proficient to take from the RANGE to the field and be adequate for elk past 500 yards. Namely 6-800 yds and I think that with a Berger 185-190 at 2700 fps would be adequate for that application with 1200+ energy and 1700 fps (looking over the charts since I posted this thread it seems very realistic and possible).

I thought that was clear though, I have never quoted myself before but I said as much below.

I may have been misunderstood so allow me to retort: I would not be posting in the "long range hunting" section of this forum if I thought that long range hunters have issues. I admire long range hunters.

If you look back at the original post you will see that I said that many people will say the .06 lacks sufficient power for elk at 1,000 yds. What I should have said is - if you cant get within 500 yds of an elk with a 30.06 then you have some issues. I am not looking to wound game or be judged as unethical, just looking for the best load for a 30.06 for shots longer than 500 yds. I would never take a 1,000 yard shot by choice, or even a 750 yd shot. But if conditions were perfect and I had the training and it was the only choice, I am looking for the best option to be able to press the envelope for my particular caliber. Its pretty simple if you ask me.

 

[gelton]

gelton,


You have quoted Hawks a couple of times

Only because I like the style of sarcasm that he and Bruce Rutherford use when they write. Quotes like "I am no forensic wizard but I can figure out what happened" and "there can be only one explanation. Those elk that were killed in the 19th Century are coming back to life because they never could have been killed in the first place. So far, this has not affected me personally, other than giving me more elk to shoot" guess its my way to insert humor into an otherwise tense situation...has nothing to do with my opinion of him or his site, but he does have helpful information.

 

[Justin Crossley]

gelton,
I think the guys who say a 30-06 or .270 or whatever is as good as some of the modern magnums are absolutely wrong. Can they do the job? The answer is yes.

Are they a good choice? Not for Long Range Hunting.

One thing that a bigger magnum will help with are those times when things go wrong. (not saying they fix bad shooting)
I had a perfect quartering shot on a bull once at 450 yds. I had a great rest and pulled the trigger. The bull was hit hard, took three steps and fell over dead.

When I walked up to the bull I realized that he had turned just a little as I was squeezing my shot. The bullet hit the back right hip and ended up going lengthwise through the bull and stopped just inside the hide on the right front shoulder. I was shooting a 30-378 Weatherby mag and I'm glad I was. I believe that if I would have been shooting my .270, I would not have gotten near the penetration and probably would have been tracking that elk.

Again, I'm not saying a magnum will fix bad shooting. I'm just saying that when hunting, things don't always go as planned and a more powerful rifle help when things happen like in my story above.

 

[Jager]

Gelton, setting up an 06 for killing Elk at 800 is just not worth it, yeah, the calibre will get the job done, but it is a job that can be done a lot better by moving to a 338 in its various forms at least. The 30/06 was and the 300wm is, in service with soldiers in the worlds hot spots, but they are hardly trying to smoke Elk either.

If you are setting up a long range platform, you are going to be spending decent money, using a sporter to consistently do this job just will not cut it.

The rifle below is a 338 Lap and is insanely accurate, shots blowing apart tennis balls at 700 are a piece of cake, if the nut behind the butt does his/her bit, big game out past 1000, squeeze the trigger and watch them fall over. Point is, it is a specialist rifle, can you fire it standing unsupported from the shoulder, not a chance, you getting my drift? (pardon the pun)


Any good rifleman will tell you the magnums won't kick anymore than their non belted cousins, imo the 270 with good loads is the worst of the lot, and I have owned 3 of them, people get it into their heads that the magnums are cruel in the shoulder and 'develop' a flinch before even firing one, try one out Gelton you will be surprised.

Justin what people mean by saying the 270 or 06 is as good as the magnums, is, that under normal hunting ranges, a big animal will not know the difference in 2-300 fps when hit with either or, with the bullet landing in the right spot.

 

[gelton]

Thanks for your time and nice setup you have there. Keep in mind that you were the one that brought flinching into the conversation and any only mention thereafter by me is from other authors that seem to validate what you were trying to say in the first place. Definitely not afraid of recoil, I sight in my dads .375 for him. As I said - it's not that I don't want a magnum just don't have one yet. I feel like I have been to six flags and told that I am too short to ride the rides.

 

[Sam Millard]

[QUOTEMy current set up is a Rem 700 30.06 with a Leupold 4-10x35mm. I have a CDS turret system that is matched to my 180 grain Sierra Gameking that goes one revolution to 575 yards. This is my setup for this year. No issues here.

I am considering developing another load to where the CDS turret will go two revolutions out to ~ 1,000 yards. One reason is my local range has 1,000 targets and the other is for long range hunting of elk. What cartridge would you guys recommend from the following:

150 Grains @ 2850 fps
165 Grains @ 2750 fps
180 Grains @ 2765 fps
200 Grains @ 2565 fps
][/QUOTE]
Assuming a MV of 2765 with the Sierra 180 BT Gameking (BC of .506), at 23.9 baro pressure (7000 ft), 30 degrees temp, you would need 11.6 MOA up at 575 yards and 27.3 MOA up at 1000 yards.

With a 10MOA turret revolution, you would need almost 3 revolutions to get there. If you want to shoot out that far, I would highly recommend ditching the CDS concept and just learn to dial in MOAs. It is extremely simple. I don't think the CDS dials are designed to do what you want to do. The '06 will certainly launch them out there, but you will need to come up with a drop table or use a ballistic program and "true it" to your platform.

 

[gelton]

Good info there regarding the CDS system. It was my understanding that if you were to zero at 200 that two revolutions would get there but perhaps I am wrong.

The guy at leupold seemed surprised when I told him I wanted a 1 revolution stop when I ordered my first one, acted as if everyone went the two revolution route. So it isnt as if I dont know there are limitations (if I didnt I would have ordered a two revolution in the first place.) Also, at longer distances I would look towards a slightly better bullet than the Sierra Gameking. Currently I shoot the spire point boattail with the BC that you list above but the main reason why I like them is because of their price so I can shoot the hell out of em without worrying about it and I can take them straight from the range to the field.

On a different but connected point - Here are the things holding me up on the purchase of a magnum and a "proper" long range scope:

1. I have a habit of only buying the best and currently do not have 6K to spend on my extracurricular activities. (I didnt buy the rem 700 and leupold it was a hand me down)
2. The flinching involved from a magnum wouldnt be because of the recoil it would be because of the $1.80 I just spent by sending the round down range. (and thats handloaded)
3. In the current environment when I can barely find the powder and bullets to supply the .06 and the training I do with it, I think it would be irresponsible to try and find a brand new set up.
4. They are sort of like German made cars - you might be able to afford to buy one, but can you afford to drive one? And that my friends, is the point. The thousands of rounds that it will take to be profecient at these distances and you are looking at 5-6K just for the ammo and another 3-5K on a proper optic + rifle setup.

Do I want one? Sure. In my immediate future? No.