460 and 490 Grain cast lead bullets for muzzleloader elk?

[Hunthigh1]

There seem to be many different schools of thought when it comes to muzzle loader bullet selection. When I load my 30.06 i choose 180 grain slugs (heavyish for caliber). When i build my arrows, i build them to about 500+ grains (heavyish for my draw weight and bow). With my love for heavier projectiles and penetration, it only seems logical that i should look to the heavier bullets when hunting elk with a muzzleloader. My brief research has pointed me to Cast lead bullets in the 460 and 490 grain class. Anyone have comparison experience with these heavy cast lead 50 cal slugs?

I shoot a CVA Optima V2 with 209 primer in WA and Musket caps in Idaho.

Thanks for any first hand testing. I have not taken an animal with a muzzle loader. The slow speed ballistics are hard to wrap my mind around when accustomed to Centerfire rifles.

 

[SteveCNJ]

You will definitely have anemic muzzle velocities with bullets at that weight. My T/C Bone Collector schools 290 gr Barnes TEZ with 70 grains by weight of BH 209 and CCI 209 primers has 1845 fps muzzle velocity. I could only imagine the velocity adding 200 gr of weight.

 

[Wrench]

I shoot the 495 no excuses and it's quite accurate. I've only killed one mule deer with that bullet, but near as I can tell it's still in the air. The deer hit the dirt like it was hit by lightning. I have some 600's as well but still haven't smashed one into anything big yet.

 

[sabotloader]

There seem to be many different schools of thought when it comes to muzzle loader bullet selection. When I load my 30.06 i choose 180 grain slugs (heavyish for caliber). When i build my arrows, i build them to about 500+ grains (heavyish for my draw weight and bow). With my love for heavier projectiles and penetration, it only seems logical that i should look to the heavier bullets when hunting elk with a muzzleloader. My brief research has pointed me to Cast lead bullets in the 460 and 490 grain class. Anyone have comparison experience with these heavy cast lead 50 cal slugs?

I shoot a CVA Optima V2 with 209 primer in WA and Musket caps in Idaho.

Thanks for any first hand testing. I have not taken an animal with a muzzle loader. The slow speed ballistics are hard to wrap my mind around when accustomed to Centerfire rifles.

It really isn't as much about velocity as it is available energy at the range you are shooting. Lead freight trains like you are suggesting carry energy very well.

This an example of a 460 grain bullshop conical.

Hunting in Idaho during ML season you are required to shoot the lead bombs and the 460 is a very bullet.

In Washington you choices are wide open. Were it me I would not shoot lead. I would move to a modern saboted bullet.

One option I would offer for Washington is a much lighter and much faster bullet with decent elk energy to 200 yards.

The Lehigh 452x265 CF HP has tremendous "Terminal Performance" and retains energy really well.

 

[5MilesBack]

I shoot a CVA Optima V2 with 209 primer in WA and Musket caps in Idaho.

A couple things........first, I bought a CVA Accura V2 last year and then read the manual. CVA says to not use any full lead conicals over 400gr in their rifles. I wanted to use the 460gr No Excuses lead conicals.........and still might, at a reduced load of BH209. Since this would be for my daughters, a reduced load would be more appropriate anyway. However, one daughter used 100gr of BH209 behind a 338gr Powerbelt on her elk at 30 yards.......but we weren't impressed with the results. Not a single drop of blood, even where the holes were (2 shots)......no exit.

Second, our ML elk season is right in the middle of the rut, so shots are in bow range. So there really isn't any downside to using a heavy lead conical, especially if it gives us an exit hole as well.

 

[Hunthigh1]

It really isn't as much about velocity as it is available energy at the range you are shooting. Lead freight trains like you are suggesting carry energy very well.

This an example of a 460 grain bullshop conical.

Hunting in Idaho during ML season you are required to shoot the lead bombs and the 460 is a very bullet.

In Washington you choices are wide open. Were it me I would not shoot lead. I would move to a modern saboted bullet.

One option I would offer for Washington is a much lighter and much faster bullet with decent elk energy to 200 yards.

The Lehigh 452x265 CF HP has tremendous "Terminal Performance" and retains energy really well.

Thanks for the ballistic charts. Very useful!


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[Hunthigh1]

A couple things........first, I bought a CVA Accura V2 last year and then read the manual. CVA says to not use any full lead conicals over 400gr in their rifles. I wanted to use the 460gr No Excuses lead conicals.........and still might, at a reduced load of BH209. Since this would be for my daughters, a reduced load would be more appropriate anyway. However, one daughter used 100gr of BH209 behind a 338gr Powerbelt on her elk at 30 yards.......but we weren't impressed with the results. Not a single drop of blood, even where the holes were (2 shots)......no exit.

Second, our ML elk season is right in the middle of the rut, so shots are in bow range. So there really isn't any downside to using a heavy lead conical, especially if it gives us an exit hole as well.

Interesting. I know that no excuses also makes a 420 grain slug. Maybe I’ll try that one at the range also.

I had the exact same results with a 348 power belt over 100 grains of 777 last year. Literally No blood trail. This is why I’m am shopping for a new bullet. I’m hunting in western Washington so shots are likely to be sub 60 yds..... and never over 90 yds.


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[FrontierGander]

blood trails this blood trails that. Sometimes it just takes the animal longer to bleed due to the cavity having to fill up before it reaches the hole. A .50cal hole is going to bleed at some point. An ex girl friend ( her first time going on a hunt ) even was able to track a deer I shot with ease after I sent a .490 round ball into his lungs. Blood started after maybe 20yards.

For elk, I now have to use a conical in my 50cal due to regulation changes, so I went with the 395gr Lyman Plains bullet mold. These I hand cast to under 1 grain of each other and then pan lubed them. These will not get used until I draw an actual tag due to the time consuming process of making, sorting, weighing and lubing them.

 

[5MilesBack]

blood trails this blood trails that. Sometimes it just takes the animal longer to bleed due to the cavity having to fill up before it reaches the hole.

Ya, and that's one tough tracking job when the elk is running through the timber at full speed. Lots of ground to cover searching. Luckily my daughter shot a little high, so the shock dropped him but then he got back up and ran. Even the second shot which was perfectly placed didn't lose a drop even after the bull went down and rolled. I had to run my fingers over the hide to even find where the holes were. That's weird. I've shot bulls with arrows that bled immediately, even on high hits.

 

[sandhillhunter]

A couple things........first, I bought a CVA Accura V2 last year and then read the manual. CVA says to not use any full lead conicals over 400gr in their rifles. I wanted to use the 460gr No Excuses lead conicals.........and still might, at a reduced load of BH209.

I ordered some of the same bullets to size them in my CVA Optima and then read their same disclaimer about not using heavier solid bullets. So, I never did try them. I have now bought a Remington 700 UML and may work them up for it at some point.

 

[KyleR1985]

I shoot the 460gr NE out of my Disc Extreme. I did not get a chance at an elk last year, but I did shoot a 200lb whitetail at about 40 yards. Broadside right behind the elbow about 1/3 of the way up the deer. It was storming, and by the time I got down from tree, packed my gear, and got to where the deer was standing when I shot, I was still able to follow a river of blood to the deer about 100 yards away in thick switchcane. It looked like a horror movie. I subscribe to the "bloodtrails are random" mentality.

That bullet will do anything a faster flatter shooting one will if you're shooting open sights. If you can shoot accurately under field conditions with the adrenaline of a hunt past 150 yards, then look into light bullets. Otherwise, I can shoot 3" and under groups all day with open sights at 100 yards with that bullet traveling 1375fps. I might poke one at 150 yards if conditions were perfect. Inside of that, give me heavy all day.

 

[IdahoHntr]

I started shooting the 420 gr No Excuses last year. No Excuses is fairly well priced, easy to work with, and I got my bullets nice and quick. They have a sample pack so that you can pick which bullet diameter fits your bore the best as well as a sample pack of the different weight bullets they offer so that you can try them out and see what you like best. This is what I did and I ended up going with the 420 gr, especially for deer, because I felt like it offered the best trajectory while still giving me the downrange energy that heavy lead is known for.

I didn't find a buck to test it out on last year, so I don't have any personal experience on terminal performance. I have only muzzleloader hunted in Idaho, so I haven't messed with any lighter bullets or sabots at all, but I have come across several people who have used large lead slugs to take animals over 200 yards with exceptional performance. They maintain their energy well as sabot loader's ballistics charts show. The lighter bullet had a much larger charge and still doesn't have the same energy as the bullshop at 200 yards. I feel very confident in the heavy lead in performing well on animals out to 200 yards as long as you can place it accurately. The more I shoot the 420 No Excuses the more I am impressed by it's accuracy. It has been by far the most accurate load in my muzzleloader.

If I did hunt somewhere that would let me shoot bullets like the Lehigh, I would definitely give that a try as shooting out to 200 yards with heavy lead involves compensating for quite a bit of drop that wouldn't be necessary with a lighter bullet. I hunt open country though and have worked really hard with these bullets to extend my range.

If you are never shooting over 90 yards, most muzzleloading bullets are going to work well. Especially when you are in Idaho, I see no reason not to shoot a heavy lead conical (other than your muzzy not being capable of shooting them). The trajectory is negligible at that distance, and they will hit harder than anything else that is legal to shoot here.

 

[Hunthigh1]

I've been liking the 420 grn NE bullets. They are shooting pretty accurate for me. Although I may test them against a 395-400 grain slug here this winter with hopes of having less of a rainbow trajectory.