4mm Arrow spine question

[Stevendearden]

I have a question about arrow spine that I am looking to get some advice on.

I have a 28.5 dl
Easton axis 5mm 340 cut to 27.5 Carbon to Carbon
50g brass/100g tip
lighted nock
no wrap
3 AAE max stealth
shooting 70#

Looking to go to a 4mm axis but would be open to other .166 options.
Looking at ethics components 110g (40g aluminum post, 70g SS collar)
everything else staying the same

With such short arrow length would I be able to get away with a 300 spine or would I have to go with 250 due to front weight?

Also, If anyone has any other recommendations on .166 arrows I would love to hear them.

If at all possible I would like to keep my total arrow weight around 500g.

thanks!

 

[Mighty Mouse]

27.5" 4mm Axis 300 with 210 gr on the front and 51 gr on the back (25 gr nock + 3 vanes at 8.8 gr/ea) comes out to 517 gr TAW. You didn't mention what bow you're shooting, but qSpine says this arrow would be near perfect at 70#/340 fps IBO/6" BH/30" ATA/80% LO.


I personally think the juice isn't worth the squeeze with .166" arrows. They require expensive, failure-prone half-outs/outserts or a switch to Deep Six components, and all you gain is a (likely negligible) decrease in wind drift. That 4mm Axis setup can't do anything your 5mm Axis can't already do (except lighten your wallet).

 

[Bump79]

27.5" 4mm Axis 300 with 210 gr on the front and 51 gr on the back (25 gr nock + 3 vanes at 8.8 gr/ea) comes out to 517 gr TAW. You didn't mention what bow you're shooting, but qSpine says this arrow would be near perfect at 70#/340 fps IBO/6" BH/30" ATA/80% LO.
View attachment 372180

I personally think the juice isn't worth the squeeze with .166" arrows. They require expensive, failure-prone half-outs/outserts or a switch to Deep Six components, and all you gain is a (likely negligible) decrease in wind drift. That 4mm Axis setup can't do anything your 5mm Axis can't already do (except lighten your wallet).

Perfectly stated.

 

[Stevendearden]

27.5" 4mm Axis 300 with 210 gr on the front and 51 gr on the back (25 gr nock + 3 vanes at 8.8 gr/ea) comes out to 517 gr TAW. You didn't mention what bow you're shooting, but qSpine says this arrow would be near perfect at 70#/340 fps IBO/6" BH/30" ATA/80% LO.
View attachment 372180

I personally think the juice isn't worth the squeeze with .166" arrows. They require expensive, failure-prone half-outs/outserts or a switch to Deep Six components, and all you gain is a (likely negligible) decrease in wind drift. That 4mm Axis setup can't do anything your 5mm Axis can't already do (except lighten your wallet).

I am shooting a Mathews V3x 33.

I appreciate the feedback. That being said, what would be anothe good option for a little lighter GPI than a 5mm axis? In that case I would like to use iron will HIT inserts probably with a collar for strength. I’ve had too many axis mushroom on the ends. For arrow weight again I’d like to keep it in the 475-500 range, and FOC around 15%.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I am shooting a Mathews V3x 33.

I appreciate the feedback. That being said, what would be anothe good option for a little lighter GPI than a 5mm axis? In that case I would like to use iron will HIT inserts probably with a collar for strength. I’ve had too many axis mushroom on the ends. For arrow weight again I’d like to keep it in the 475-500 range, and FOC around 15%.

A 27.5" shaft around 9 gpi with 200-ish gr on the front and 51 gr on the back would hit your TAW and FOC targets. In .204" diameter, a 300 spine Black Eagle Rampage, PSE Carbon Force XP, Sirius Apollo, or Victory RIP/RIP TKO could all work.

 

[Stevendearden]

A 27.5" shaft around 9 gpi with 200-ish gr on the front and 51 gr on the back would hit your TAW and FOC targets. In .204" diameter, a 300 spine Black Eagle Rampage, PSE Carbon Force XP, Sirius Apollo, or Victory RIP/RIP TKO could all work.
View attachment 372285

I’ve considered the victory Rip XV, air strike, rampage, and Sirius Apollo. Can’t find much about the Apollo online. What’s your experiences with any of these.

 

[Billy Goat]

If you are mushrooming the ends of axis, I think something is off in you assembly process.

Make sure the ends are square, a point that seats against a highspot on the end with transfer load to that spot instead on the whole shaft.

Make sure you are using a proper epoxy, any movement in the hit can damage the front of the shaft.

Make sure the points are exact same od if not slightly oversized.


I think any of the arrows you listed will be fine, just pick something in the weight range you want and assemble properly.

 

[wayoh22]

A 27.5" shaft around 9 gpi with 200-ish gr on the front and 51 gr on the back would hit your TAW and FOC targets. In .204" diameter, a 300 spine Black Eagle Rampage, PSE Carbon Force XP, Sirius Apollo, or Victory RIP/RIP TKO could all work.
View attachment 372285

@Mighty Mouse Is that just a spreadsheet you've made over the years?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

@Mighty Mouse Is that just a spreadsheet you've made over the years?

Yes, it's just info from manufacturer websites that I compiled into a spreadsheet. PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy if you want it.

 

[Stevendearden]

27.5" 4mm Axis 300 with 210 gr on the front and 51 gr on the back (25 gr nock + 3 vanes at 8.8 gr/ea) comes out to 517 gr TAW. You didn't mention what bow you're shooting, but qSpine says this arrow would be near perfect at 70#/340 fps IBO/6" BH/30" ATA/80% LO.
View attachment 372180

I personally think the juice isn't worth the squeeze with .166" arrows. They require expensive, failure-prone half-outs/outserts or a switch to Deep Six components, and all you gain is a (likely negligible) decrease in wind drift. That 4mm Axis setup can't do anything your 5mm Axis can't already do (except lighten your wallet).

Hey would you mind running some different numbers for me for another axis build if I give you all the info?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Hey would you mind running some different numbers for me for another axis build if I give you all the info?

Sure. Post it here or PM me.

 

[docholidayy]

I have a 28.5 DL as well shooting 70# but practice at 65# most year round.

I just bought VAP TKO's V1 and absolutely love them!!! 300 spine is perfect. I cut them to 29" total length (including the 50gn outsert)

I like a longer arrow so the broad head sticks out past my hand.

I put a 100g tip on them and they come in at 460gn with 3 fletch blazers (6.3gn per) and a 15gn nocturnal.

Makes it roughly 13% FOC. I could and likely will do a 125 head making the total 585 with a 16% FOC.

You would definitely not need a 240/250 spine unless you were shooting 75lbs imo.

I drop mine down to 65 with these arrows (the 100gn head) and they are still shooting bullets.