5 mm HIT arrows - do you really need collars?

[satchamo]

I’m looking for someone with either anecdotes of arrows breaking between the insert and point on a 5mm arrow with a hit insert (axis, BE rampage, etc) OR someone with engineering/structure education to tell me WHY collars have become and unspoken requirement for HIT inserts?

I have shot them both ways and honestly never considered collars until Snyder mentioned it years ago on a podcast then I started thinking it had some merit so I grabbed some IW collars. I haven’t had any issues with them other than it’s just an added cost and considering I lose arrows like an oak loses acorns, im starting to question that added investment.

Im struggling in my brain to see where this supposed “weak point” is. You thread a point into a HIT so it’s basically supported by metal in that area whole area is it not?? How is it any “weaker” than a standard insert?

 

[Jbehredt]

I’ve had axis start to mushroom and splinter from the insert end. Never in a violent failure, just over time. Being fired many, many times.

 

[Bump79]

This is a hot topic for some reason. In my opinion and experience a tip can bend and bust out in front of the hit insert. This is most likely to happen with lower quality heads.

My advise is to just contact Lancaster and request an aluminum shaft that's ID matches the OD of your arrow. Cut to appropriate length and glue on. Simple, cheap and stronger than stock.

 

[Billy Goat]

If your shafts are perfectly square/chamfered, your points are at minimum the exact same OD if not just slightlyl larger, you keep your points tight, and have properly glued the inserts in with epoxy you should be fine.

Collars are just a little insurance, but not required.

 

[mighteywhitehunter]

Split the difference and get the Easton BAR. It will help out a lot and is way cheaper than the IW at a minimal weight penalty but adds performance and some metal between the broadhead and shaft. I personally have broken a decent amount of 5mm Axis arrows in critters and on rocks etc but they will usually break 6in to 1 foot down the shaft from the point. Never broken one at the HIT insert with a BAR installed.

 

[doc holiday13]

I'm moving to collars next year. I had 2 arrows break at the top of my hit insert so I lost 2 arrows and 2 broadheads this year

 

[satchamo]

Split the difference and get the Easton BAR. It will help out a lot and is way cheaper than the IW at a minimal weight penalty but adds performance and some metal between the broadhead and shaft. I personally have broken a decent amount of 5mm Axis arrows in critters and on rocks etc but they will usually break 6in to 1 foot down the shaft from the point. Never broken one at the HIT insert with a BAR installed.

I always ran these before using IW collars. Seems like they’d at least stop the wear and tear on the end. But the thing that’s weird is easton doesn’t say to use them with field points?

 

[mighteywhitehunter]

I personally use them with field points and broadheads. You will have to size up the diameter of your field point to match the OD of the BAR because they are a lottle bigger than the arrow diameter.

 

[5MilesBack]

Like I've said before........I've been using several different 5mm type arrows pretty much exclusively the past 15 years and have had very few issues overall just using HIT's......no collars, no BAR's. Financially it has made no sense for me to go to collars or try something else. If it isn't broken, and works well, what's there to fix? But apparently collars would be a really good investment for a lot of guys. Use whatever you have to to have durable arrows and have confidence in them.

 

[Roosterstraw]

I’ve ran ethics half out with a sleeve and it does make the system a lot stronger however it also adds more to mess with and more things to go wrong. My next build will be 5mm axis with HIT inserts without a sleeve.

 

[Beendare]

Delete

 

[BRTreedogs]

Imo this started with people that stump shoot alot or want allt of FOC

I've ruined some axis and have considered footers but I do not want to increase my overall arrow weight.
And all the breakage I have had seemed like it was par for the coarse considering what I hit.

 

[Billy Goat]

Imo this started with people that stump shoot alot or want allt of FOC

I've ruined some axis and have considered footers but I do not want to increase my overall arrow weight.
And all the breakage I have had seemed like it was par for the coarse considering what I hit.

Kinda like when you build up the weak link you just break something else?

Put bigger axles in, start snapping driveshafts......


Sometimes, something is just gonna break.

 

[roosiebull]

I’ve had axis start to mushroom and splinter from the insert end. Never in a violent failure, just over time. Being fired many, many times.

same. i have shot HIT inserts a bunch, and the only issues i have had were shooting sage rats, with lots of hard impacts on hard desert ground and sage brush, buck brush, grease wood... after hundreds of shots, they will start to broom out a little on the ends. i have made collars out of i think 2018 aluminum arrows the past couple years for that purpose, and they certainly don't hurt, but certainly not necessary.

i have never had an insert rip out the side of a shaft, and if it was a real world problem, shooting rats would exploit that if it were. i collar them so the ends don't broom, but the HIT are plenty tough without, even though it doesn't seem like they would be

 

[BRTreedogs]

Kinda like when you build up the weak link you just break something else?

Put bigger axles in, start snapping driveshafts......


Sometimes, something is just gonna break.

Haha yup.

I quit getting mushrooms when I started squaring everything from the get go. I use a silver sharpie on the rim and square until no longer visible.

Only time I've had breakage was rocks, and animals rolling over with an arrow in them.

Well maybe they broke on impact guess idk but the critter was donzo so doesn't matter to me.

 

[roosiebull]

Kinda like when you build up the weak link you just break something else?

Put bigger axles in, start snapping driveshafts......


Sometimes, something is just gonna break.

one of my favorites is people switching arrows because they don't get a pass through, and the animal breaks the arrow off when it takes off. that will break any arrow

 

[BRTreedogs]

New Fusion Arrow Squaring Tool Device, ASD, w/ Hardware, Choose Color | eBay

An Arrow Squaring Device (Tool) is needed to clean up and square both ends of composite (carbon) arrows after cutting and prior to tip and nock insertion. Next, insert a small square of 220-grit sandpaper and you're ready to go.

www.ebay.com

 

[Steve O]

I used to foot my Axis and FMJ. Once I got rid of the crappy epoxy Easton put in with those shafts and started using JB Weld I have not had any issues.

 

[BBob]

I used to foot my Axis and FMJ. Once I got rid of the crappy epoxy Easton put in with those shafts and started using JB Weld I have not had any issues.

I've been using Loctite Black Max on inserts and bushings for all of my arrows for 25 years and it does not come loose, ever. Black Max is a rubberized super glue designed for impact and vibration.

 

[GLB]

I have been using Easton Axis for several years and have been using the SS half outs inserts. When I switched from wood to carbons (I only own LBs and RCs) it blew me away how tough they were in comparison. So anyway I set up the carbons would be stronger than the wood arrows.

The SS half outs seem to make things straight forward as far as putting things together. However I will say I have mixed results as far as durability. Some hard hits they seem to hold up well and then some they seem to bend easy. Now I am slowly changing everything over to a short (50 grns) brass HIT insert with the Easton BAR. This seems so far to hold up better than the half outs.