54 Hawken dilema

Mtaylor

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
193
Hello all I have been looking into muzzleloader hunting more. I currently have a Traditions Hawken 54 cal I got when I was a teenager. I have shot mainly round balls through it and haven’t experienced very good accuracy. Not sure if it’s due to the heavy trigger pull, recoil isn’t horrible but the brass butt plate doesn’t help(I.e. me flinching) or the inconsistencies of rifle/round ball.

I would like to try and make this rifle shoot better if I could before I went out to buy a new inline muzzy. Thinking of doing an Idaho elk hunt in 2020 so I would need it to be Idaho legal.

Question 1: any suggestions or tips on helping the roundballs shoot better?

Question 2: when I go hunt for elk I will probably use a conicle. Any suggestions of brands weights to use?

Question 3: should I just hang it up on the wall as a replica and buy a Knight? 😂

Below are the products I’m using, granted they are 16 yrs old. Does powder go bad after that amount of time?
Also in regards to the powder measures I know the large one is 100 and the medium one is 75, but not sure if the small one is 25, or 30.

7B6D8215-03EC-4B24-9EFC-A759FDFC1E8C.jpeg

9E86D76C-D4C9-45F4-9817-BBCF404E1EC3.jpeg1662FA6F-BE98-46D8-BE67-808A73E5B8EE.jpeg0D2C61EC-8A91-4CB8-9C46-25DD42CFE6B0.jpegCA3E2871-AFAF-4ACD-8DD9-103B8852C9C4.jpegF1CC3523-40F5-4AC1-8CFA-3899EDF96ED2.jpeg
8B4D34FC-625F-4C4B-ACC7-C5CEC14E0EB2.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
397
Location
Idaho
The twist rate on your rifle is most likely a 1:48.
Barrels made specifically for round balls use very slow twist rates of 1:60 to 1:70.
Conical specific barrels run 1:28 or something close.

The 1:48 twist is meant to be an "all-around" barrel for using both round balls and conical bullets. Some say that means it shoots both OK but shoots neither extremely well. Try many different combinations and you will find what works best. If nothing meets the accuracy standard you are trying to achieve then it may be time for a new muzzleloader.

I get my best accuracy with roundballs using a tight patch and ball combo. .530 balls with a 0.18 inch patch material and mink oil lube. I run a brush and cleaning patch between shots. Try different ball and patch combinations and powder charges.

For conicals buy several different brands and types of conicals and shoot them with varying powder charges to find the best group. No different than reloading for a modern rifle.
 

30338

WKR
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
I'd buy an adjustable powder measure and start at 70 grains and work up to 100 grains in 10 grain increments. You may also want to buy some Swiss or Goex FFG black powder. Using those .015 patches and .530 balls first. If those don't work at any of those charges, I'd go to a .018 patch and the .530 ball again working up with powder charges.

If not luck there, go back to a .015 patch and try a .535 ball. Repeat above. You should find a load with one of those combos though.

Those conicals kick like crap with steel buttplates. I'd only try 70-85 grains with those personally. Hope you find a load that works.
 

dirtdarte

FNG
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
24
Location
N Utah
Good advice given already. I have a .54 and it really likes the Lyman Plains tapered conical. I cast my own and they come out at a hair over 450 grains with pure lead. Hornady used to make a plains bullet but have stopped production in 54. You won't be under-gunned going after elk with that rifle. With open sights your range or trajectory will be pretty close to a 50... out to 125 yards at least... in fact, your real limitation will be your sights. I hunt Idaho every year with my muzzys and have equipped mine with a good set of peep sights. I suggest you look into that if you are serious about hunting Idaho.

But.... if I were you... and I've been there... I would seriously consider looking at keeping the 54 as my first muzzy and go ahead a get a 50 for hunting. The reason is component availability. There are a lot more choices with a 50 caliber. Plus... who doesn't like getting a new rifle?

Sights will be your limitation. You cant shoot what you cant see. So factor that in when you make your rifle decisions. A knight is a good choice and will serve you well. Shoot conicals and you won't have any problem taking elk at reasonable ranges. For me that is 150 yards for the first shot with peep sights. Then get out there and practice shooting field positions as much as you can. Try several different conicals and develop your loads changing only one thing at a time until you achieve your accuracy goals. Don't get my wrong... your 54 will work fine... but your conical choices are very limited compared to a 50. unless you cast your own conicals... Which is actually a whole new level of satisfaction in and of itself.

One other thing... in Idaho, for a muzzy hunt, you must have a muzzy permit and your equipment must comply with the muzzy requirements. If you use a muzzleloader during a general any weapon hunt... you do not have to comply with the muzzle loader requirements. In other words, you can use a modern in-line with sabots and shoot Blackhorn and have a scope mounted on your rifle. The minimum caliber requirement of 45 for deer, pronghorn and 50 for elk etc. is gone as well. This is another reason to consider getting a modern inline... flexibility. Just thought I'd throw that in as many people don't know that.

What ever you decide, just don't use round balls for elk. Yeah... you can kill them but there are much better options. Good luck.
 

LaGriz

WKR
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
493
Location
New Iberia,LA
Good advice here,
Have a .54 Lyman Deer Stalker with a 24" BBl with a 1-48 twist. It shoots the .530 round balls pretty well. Encountered poor penetration on 4 whitetail deer using a 360 gr. Maxi-hunter conical bullet and 90 grains of FFG &# 11 cap. Never got an exit and finally switched to a different load. I'm told the Maxi-ball does penetrate much better, but I have no personal history with this load.

In 2007 & 2011 I hunted mule deer in a primitive weapon season. I found that the swaged round balls grouped better than any conical in my peep sight equipped Lyman. Took a big bodied Muley in 2007 at 85 yards with a high shoulder shot. Found the flat but intact 220 grain ball under the hide of the off shoulder. Deer dropped at the shot and could not get up as it took out both shoulders.

In 2011 I got a longish (100+yards) shot at a 3X4 near the end of my hunt. I missed and reloaded and missed again! When I checked the next day, it turned out my sight got bumped as the rifle was shooting 4-6" left at 60 yards. My eye sight has since gotten worse and I now struggle with any iron sights.

Don't believe for a moment you are under gunned with this rifle. If your eyesight is good, install a peep and dial it in. I treat my barrel like an iron skillet. Swab it out with hot water and soap, dry it, and keep it seasoned with "bore butter". Run a dry patch before you load to remove the bore butter. Make an effort to keep the nipple and breach plug clean and dry. Fire a cap or two with a patch in the barrel and look for a positive indication. I find I have to fire, clean, and reload whenever the weather is damp. My knight Bighorn can go a week in dry weather (209 primer) with the same load and be dependable on day 7! Try this with the Lyman side lock you will risk a miss fire. Be sure to mark your ramrod once you have dialed in your desired load. I like to load it in camp or at the truck with a range rod. Repeat the powder amount and consistent rod pressure as close as possible with each effort. Don't know if it's legal in your location, but my Lyman likes the 777 loose powder. I also find the weapon is easier to clean (no issues) when using it vs FFG black powder. Choose not to use Pyrodex as it requires a higher ignition temp than either FFG or 777. LaGriz
 
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Mtaylor

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
193
Thanks for the input guys! I was out today dialing it in. It liked the 90 gr of powder better. Going to fine tune the sight adjustment tomorrow and shoot conicles through it.

DirtDarte I get where your coming from, I did some google searches sir 54 cal bullets. Not very easy to find if you can. Not sure I want to start casting my own bullets yet.

LaGriz I think I’m going to get a bottle of 777 I hear it’s cleaner than Pyrodex. And I’m all for that!
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
902
Location
Broomfield, CO
Round ball is fine for elk, as is conical - I'd use whatever shoots better. I shoot a 54 flintlock that is rifled for rounds (1 in 66). I'd keep it 100 yards and under, and you really don't need to work up to a hot load. If 80 grains shoots best that's fine.

As mentioned your rifling is probably a compromise twist, so you may need to experiment to find what ball/bullet/patch/charge combo it likes best.
 
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Mtaylor

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
193
For conicals, try this fine company.
https://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/product/54-caliber-535-grains/
Only ignition issues I have had, have come with 777. It does burn clean though. Just ordered up some Swiss from Powder Valley to try in my 54 and 58. Goex was fine but have to tinker in the spring always.

Thanks! I haven’t seen this company before. I found October Country from Hayden Idaho. They have a maxi bullet but it isn’t packed with lube in between the ribs of the bullet.
If I got some do I need to pack my own lube in there and if so what lube should I use?

Matt
 

30338

WKR
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Looked at those October Country conicals. Those would probably work too, though No Excuses has a great reputation. For the OC ones I'd just use Bore Butter on them.

Lot of guys using an over the powder felt wad as well. It may be worth getting some of those too.
 

2blade

WKR
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
431
I had a Lyman Deerstalker in 54 a few years back, 1:48 twist, really liked 90 grs of powder, 530 ball, .018 patch, as does my trade rifle also with a 1:48 twist, which is for sale. I tried maxi's once.... enough of that! Kicked like like a mule!
 

elkduds

WKR
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
956
Location
CO Springs
Lessons from my Lyman Deerstalker 54, over 20 years. A hot shot type nipple will improve ignition, even w Pyrodex or Goex. I practice w 70 g 777 or Goex FFg under a .530 ball and juicy .018 patch. I have a palm saver that lets me get pretty consistent seating pressure every load. It shoots balls into 3" @100 yds w Lyman peep. Conical (elk) load is maxi ball over 95g 777, same 3" @ 100 yds. And it is for sale.deerstalker.small.png
 

LaGriz

WKR
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
493
Location
New Iberia,LA
elkduds,
I have forgotten that I too have a "hotshot nipple" on my Lyman Deer Stalker. Tried to convert to the musket cap, but had a number of misfires at the range and went back to the #11 cap. Keep a "nipple pick" in my kit. If I have time to use it before reloading, it goes a long way to insuring a good ignition. Have a friend that shoots a Lyman Great Plans Rifle with good success. His twist is 1-66 if I recall correctly. Round ball shooter for sure. LaGriz
 

67bronco

FNG
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
96
Location
South Carolina
take a look at no excuse conicals. I shoot them in my knight mk-85 with a peep and they shoot very well with the wonder wad under it. I just picked up a tc big boar 58. I plan to use roundballs in t
 
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