6.8 Western?

[Ironeyes969]

Admittedly, Im a fan of the awkward .277 caliber rounds. The possible impacts of Winchester's new cartridge are what Im curious about. With the Western being a shortened WSM capable of loading 165-180 pills at mag length and driving them 2800+fps with a factory 1:7.5 bbl could this see an increase in faster twist factory bbls for the 270win and WSM? Could we see heavier factory loads for those?

Are any of you planning to pick one up? I dont own an XPR, but maybe I will?

 

[Ryan Avery]

The .277, the ugly baby of calibers. But I shot my first couple of elk with a .270 and it keeps taunting me. I would be more in the 27 Nosler camp than the 6.8 Western camp.

 

[wyo2track]

Admittedly, Im a fan of the awkward .277 caliber rounds. The possible impacts of Winchester's new cartridge are what Im curious about. With the Western being a shortened WSM capable of loading 165-180 pills at mag length and driving them 2800+fps with a factory 1:7.5 bbl could this see an increase in faster twist factory bbls for the 270win and WSM? Could we see heavier factory loads for those?

Are any of you planning to pick one up? I dont own an XPR, but maybe I will?

I'm intrigued with this new cartridge. Like many, I've always had a soft spot for the 270 caliber. I don't think you'll see many changes in regards to barrel twist in the 270 win or WSM, mainly because if the big OEM rifle manufacturers make them, factory ammunition will have to follow. And since there are millions and millions of standard 1:10 twist barrels out there that won't properly spin the big BC .277 bullets, manufacturers won't want to make the ammo available. Hence, just create a new caliber that's suited better and designed up front for the big BC modern bullets. Heck, the 165 ABLR has only been available since the 27 Nosler came out last year and Bergers 170 EOL has only been available for 2 yrs. And with the introduction of the 6.8 Western they introduce 2 totally new bullets with the 170 Ballistic Silver tip and 175 Sierra Tipped Gameking. My question is how bad will the 6.8 Western cannibalize the 270 WSM? If the 6.8 Western will shoot the lightweight 110-130 lightweights too, it might be goodbye WSM.

 

[Ironeyes969]

Wyo, I feel like you are probably correct. (Though Im a little hopeful to see the older cartridges get some love too) On paper it certainly looks to be a WSM killer. But maybe it will help expand custom factory loadings and further expand the heavy load development.

 

[coues craze]

If I read the article correctly it has an OAL of 2.995 with 165 ABLR so it’s still too long to run in a short action such as a 700. The only advantage I see is that it has a longer Sammi throat than a 270 wsm, but still needs a long or intermediate length action. If you were building a custom gun it seems to me you’d be far ahead to build a properly throated 270 wsm.... just my opinion and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[BluMtn]

I like my 270 WSM and so far has killed everything that I have shot. I see an answer to a question that nobody ask. If someone wants to use the heavier bullets spin a new barrel on the WSM and speed the twist up.

 

[Ironeyes969]

I like my 270 WSM and so far has killed everything that I have shot. I see an answer to a question that nobody ask. If someone wants to use the heavier bullets spin a new barrel on the WSM and speed the twist up.

The same could be said for practically any rifle. No animal has ever survived a shot from my 270win (or my 223 or 22-250 for that matter) so thats a poor metric. And of course changing bbl's is an option, could even change to a larger caliber at the same time so again not really a solid measure.

The fact that its a factory, fast twist, semi short action magnum is the appeal. Many custom versions have existed previous but this is a first factory option and lets be honest. Many, many people just want a factory gun not having money or a smith they trust or mechanical inclination themselves

 

[Glory]

I don’t get it. The 7’s do the same thing, but better. The 6.8 Western gets a participation trophy at best.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don’t get it. The 7’s do the same thing, but better. The 6.8 Western gets a participation trophy at best.

Seriously. Same song and dance with any 270, there’s probably a better option one size bigger or smaller. The “new high BC bullets” are lower BC than available 7mm bullets of the same weight. A 7 SAUM will have similar recoil but better performance. Factory 6.5 PRC will have less recoil and better performance.

I will say that they’ve done about exactly what I would have if designing a .277 cartridge from scratch but it’s still stuck with being a .277 bore.

 

[Matt Cashell]

What a bunch of Debbie Downers.

This seems like a cool new cartridge. Better bc bullets, faster twists, better throat life, mildish recoil.

Shoot, we’ve been trying new, unnecessary cartridges for 80 years. It’s part of the fun.

I had a 270 WSM in a model 70 that I had a ton of fun loading for and hunting with. Throat didn’t last long, but it sure shot flat while it lasted. Killed a couple nice bulls with it, too.

 

[archp625]

I think its always awesome when a new cartridge comes out. It will be interesting if it catches on. For now its a no due to dies and brass and really the state of reloading we are in. But I will do more research on it and it could be my next barrel when I shoot out my 6.5 PRC.

 

[wyo2track]

Seriously. Same song and dance with any 270, there’s probably a better option one size bigger or smaller. The “new high BC bullets” are lower BC than available 7mm bullets of the same weight. A 7 SAUM will have similar recoil but better performance. Factory 6.5 PRC will have less recoil and better performance.

I will say that they’ve done about exactly what I would have if designing a .277 cartridge from scratch but it’s still stuck with being a .277 bore.

In a custom rifle I'd agree with you. But, in stock form, the 6.8 will out perform both the SAUM and PRC. Its a little, but it will. I have a stock Rem 700 7 SAUM, limited to a 2.825 COAL due to mag box length. It won't push the 168 ABLR at 6.8 Western velocity with the 165 ABLR in stock form. And to say the 7mm bullets of same weight have a better BC than .277 is incorrect. Same sectional density, yes, weight, no. Reading through numerous threads today, why does everyone want to compare the 6.8 Western to a custom throated and barrel twisted SAUM, 7 Mag, or 270 WSM. There has never been a modern .277 caliber with a 1:7.5-8 twist massed produced by manufacturers until now. Heck, until yesterday I don't think anyone knew a new 175 Sierra Tipped Gameking and 170 Ballistic Silvertip was being made. And once us reloaders can get our hands on the 6.8 Western and we get back to normal with reloading supplies, I'd think this cartridge is just dying for some R-26 or some N565, I'm thinking 3100 with the 165 ABLR might be possible. Good for Browning and Winchester to develop this round. I do think it'll cannibalize the 270 WSM. I find new calibers exciting. Its good for our sport.

 

[wind gypsy]

In a custom rifle I'd agree with you. But, in stock form, the 6.8 will out perform both the SAUM and PRC. Its a little, but it will. I have a stock Rem 700 7 SAUM, limited to a 2.825 COAL due to mag box length. It won't push the 168 ABLR at 6.8 Western velocity with the 165 ABLR in stock form. And to say the 7mm bullets of same weight have a better BC than .277 is incorrect. Same sectional density, yes, weight, no. Reading through numerous threads today, why does everyone want to compare the 6.8 Western to a custom throated and barrel twisted SAUM, 7 Mag, or 270 WSM. There has never been a modern .277 caliber with a 1:7.5-8 twist massed produced by manufacturers until now. Heck, until yesterday I don't think anyone knew a new 175 Sierra Tipped Gameking and 170 Ballistic Silvertip was being made. And once us reloaders can get our hands on the 6.8 Western and we get back to normal with reloading supplies, I'd think this cartridge is just dying for some R-26 or some N565, I'm thinking 3100 with the 165 ABLR might be possible. Good for Browning and Winchester to develop this round. I do think it'll cannibalize the 270 WSM. I find new calibers exciting. Its good for our sport.

What factory 6.8 western load do you see outperforming a 6.5 PRC with 143 or 147 eld? Seems the 165 and 175 gr 6.8 rounds are both slower and with lower BC bullets than the PRC loads. No numbers need to be crunched there.

In regards to magazine length, is this not being run out of a short action? I get it that rem has long neutered stuff with factory mag boxes but it seems silly to say this is better because it was designed to run at longish short action COAL and won’t work in factory rem mag boxes.

In regards to better BC in 7s at the same weight, how am I wrong? Every bullet is different but 7mm bullets in general have better form factors and higher BCs. A 270 bullet that weighs the same SHOULD have a higher BC than a 7mm but they seldom do. A 7mm 162 eld has a better BC than the 270 170 Berger. Sierra lists the .270 175 tipped game king as .560 g1 and the 7mm 165 as .610...

No doubt that the 6.8 is a better designed SAMMI round than a 7 SAUM, I still think .277 projectiles make its ballistics less impressive than 7 saum in a sammi chambering. You can’t hit mid 2800s with a 7 saum and 168 ablr?

 

[wyo2track]

What factory 6.8 western load do you see outperforming a 6.5 PRC wi th. You can’t hit mid 2800s with a 7 saum and 168 ablr?

Factory 6.5 prc with the 143 eldx is 2950 fps. Factory 6.8 western with the 165 ABLR is 2970 fps. A 22 gr. heavier bullet. Thats huge. And yeah I can hit mid 2800's in my stock 7 SAUM with the 168 ABLR, but that's still over 100 fps slower than the 6.8 western.

 

[wind gypsy]

Factory 6.5 prc with the 143 eldx is 2950 fps. Factory 6.8 western with the 165 ABLR is 2970 fps. A 22 gr. heavier bullet. Thats huge. And yeah I can hit mid 2800's in my stock 7 SAUM with the 168 ABLR, but that's still over 100 fps slower than the 6.8 western.

Gotcha, thought I saw that 6.8 load in the mid 2800s. So that would be about neck and neck with a 6.5 PRC external ballistics with a little extra umph.

 

[wyo2track]

Gotcha, thought I saw that 6.8 load in the mid 2800s. So that would be about neck and neck with a 6.5 PRC external ballistics with a little extra umph.

You probably did. That new 175 tipped gameking is runnin' in the mid 2800's.

 

[rootacres]

I think you are going down the right track. The newer high bc bullets are phenomenal. The WSM cartridges being "Winchester" were designed around a mag box length of 3". The Remingtion SAUM cartridges were designed around the 2.86" Remington SA mag box length. It is encouraging to see a SA magnum that will push these new bullets and fit in a Remington mag box. This 6.8 western is basically a .270 bullet in a 7mm SAUM case. I just ordered a 7mm SAUM Bartlein CF barrel. So I am going down that road. When that barrel burns up who knows. The 6.8 Western will be on the low side for what Id consider hunting elk with, it would be awesome for everything else. I would take the 6.8 Western as a preference over a 6.5 PRC if I had to choose one rifle for the lower 48.

 

[hereinaz]

I love short fat mags. I think they are a better design. The .277 caliber is a great size, but more bullets would help. The Western will be a solid option. It sits solid between the 6.5 and 7mm, so it will do serious work and reduce recoil from a 7mm.

The huge improvement is factory fast twist barrels and high BC bullets. I think it will canibalize the 7 saum more than the 6.5 PRC, because the 7 saum doesn't have factory fast twist barrels and high bc ammo.

IMO, for long range, they miss the boat if they don't fit in a short action and shoot the high BC bullets at about 3000 fps +or-.

If you are already handloading, that is what Rich Sherman figured out with his very popular Sherman Short mag designs. If I can fit a 7mm 180 vld and shoot it at 3000 fps, then there are all sorts of awesome possibilities for .277.

https://shermanwildcatcartridges.com/270-ss

 

[wind gypsy]

I think you are going down the right track. The newer high bc bullets are phenomenal. The WSM cartridges being "Winchester" were designed around a mag box length of 3". The Remingtion SAUM cartridges were designed around the 2.86" Remington SA mag box length. It is encouraging to see a SA magnum that will push these new bullets and fit in a Remington mag box.

SAMMI max coal is 2.955”, so not compatible with rem mag box.

The huge improvement is factory fast twist barrels and high BC bullets. I think it will canibalize the 7 saum more than the 6.5 PRC, because the 7 saum doesn't have factory fast twist barrels and high bc ammo.

I not aware of current factory rifles in 7 SAUM so the canibalizing would be in custom rifles. The availability of factory ammo definitely helps the 6.8s case, if it ever comes back in stock at least.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Targetsports.com has a bunch of 6.8 ammo in stock