80 vs 70lb -real world speed/KE differences

[Jesse Jaymes]

I'll apologize in advance for dipping into your sub forum. Long time shooter and 3D competitor-but I think I've taken 2 WT with archery gear in 25 years......but my analogy is like being a race car driver.....I simply want to get in the car and race. I don't wanna know about the tire pressure, synthetic oil, or turbo boost.

Meaning....I don't Nerd Out like most of you who live, eat and breath Archery. I much prefer gunpowder and rifles. BUT....my supplies and shooting are going to take a MAJOR hit this year. So I am going to dip back into Archery quite a bit.

Think I have 3 bows now and am ready to move them and invest in one new 2021 bow. Long time Elite shooter. And I swore I would NEVER slum a PSE. I don't own a flat brim hat. I own nothing Monster Green. I've never had a Nock On Hard On....at least I don't think I have. But the specs on the PSE EVO NTN 33 have me interested.

I am a left handed shooter, so most of my stuff needs to be ordered. I wanted to ask "what really shakes out on both paper, and in the field....by going to an 80 pound DW bow"?

Is this because Cam, Jocko, Rogan and Dud run 80lb bows that it's the new In Thing?

I suffer a 28" DL. I'll never get "Natural Speed" that my 31" DL buddies gain from being Sasquai. Would an 80lb DW do much for me over all? I kinda wanna try one.

(FYI: some of this is tongue in cheek. I was IBO Triple Crown Champ a few years ago-meaning I shot decent and attended all 3 shoots- but I really am not a die hard Archery guy. But I am wanting to invest time into September hunting and Elk...which I never have done before. I shoot a ton. Bows are always hanging on the deck and I generally can't walk by without shooting 6, But at 49 my eyes took a major shit in the last 6 months. 60 yard chip shots are not nearly as clear now. It's frustrating. And the work/maintenance on bows, bow tuning, and the never ending cycle of trying and adding new shit- get's old to me. That's my Gun Thing, not a bow thing. But if I go IN on a new bow, I will get a press and become my own Mechanic. That was my analogy of being the race car driver. I've never changed a string, served a peep and can't tune a bow. And I've lost a TON of points over the years due to a shitty shooting set up. I am not interested in that frustration any longer. My bow mechanic is swamped and hours away. I need to learn to do it myself)

 

[BRTreedogs]

I do not have a ton of direct experience.
No doubt a higher poundage will have more energy.
Here are some of my thoughts on also considering 80lbs.
Friend had one that he never shot well, pro shop put it on a hooter shooter and showed him the riser was twisting , wouldn't tune until 73 lbs.

Limited arrow selection in such a stiff spine and gpi is so high it would slow the arrow back down. Yes same speed as a 70 probably but more energy.

More tuning.

May want to have a backup 70lb bow because if anything happens to your shoulders. Ugg

Harder to resell.

I'm still interested in 80 but man my pro shop really hates stealing them to people and pretty much does everything to talk you out of it because ha knows it will be a tuning nightmare.

My argument is with high left and 80 pound today is less holding weight then a 70 of 10 yrs ago.

 

[nobody]

IMO, the 80 lb limb thing is a fad. Cam Hanes, as awesome as he may be, has everyone convinced that they need an 80 (he actually shoots 90 lb limbs) lb bow shooting 700 grain arrows to bring down an elk. Bottom line, you don't. Doesn't matter if you're strong enough to pull it, nobody's rotator cuff and shoulder will hold out long term with 90 extra pounds hinging and pulling against it.

The guy who runs our archery shop is a professional competitive shooter and has hunted nothing but archery since he was like 20, and he's in his 40's now. He has more taxidermy on his wall than lots of sporting goods stores, and he shoots his bow at 65 lbs. When he was setting up my new bow, I asked him why he didn't shoot heavier, and he pointed at his wall and said "because they don't know the difference." That was enough for me, I shoot mine at 67.5 lbs now, and I'm stronger and fitter than the average bear. To me, it's more of an ego thing for most guys that shoot the heavy draw weights. "Look how strong I am, I shoot 90 lbs. You're so weak, why do you only shoot 70", while they're getting their butts kicked in the accuracy department on 3D courses.

On the notion of that PSE, I say order up! I love my PSE with the Evolve cam system, it feels unreal. Smoothest draw cycle I've ever experienced, solid back wall, and it was so easy for the archery shop to tune. That EVO is a definite step up as far as everything else goes (I shoot a 2019 Response), but the cam system is the same. PSE of today is NOT what it was 20 years ago, I would just pull the trigger if I was you.

 

[Jimbob]

I shot 75 lbs last year but switched back to 70 lbs for this year. I used heavier arrows so speed didn't increase. Actually, it is easier to get good with flight with 290 fps and under.

I could draw the 75 just fine but the draw cycle had a more pronounced hump and was not as enjoyable to shoot. I am 100% confident that 70 lbs will kill so I'm going back to the more comfortable shooting bow.

 

[OH->CO]

I kind of go into bows now knowing that there is not a "perfect". It is hard to drop over $1000 and not know if it is going to work perfect what you want. I have had bows that just would never tune the way I wanted and then you have to sell for a loss and move on. I would suggest to buy what you want and don't let somebody sway you. At least then you can learn your own lesson and try the next thing

 

[Mighty Mouse]

If you decide you want to give 80# a try, I have a left-handed 28"/80# Elite Impulse 34 for sale. I picked up that bow and an 80# Hoyt Helix last year and have decided to stick with the Helix. I may not ever actually hunt with it maxed out at 80#, but I like having the option to bump the draw weight above 70#. I don't "need" 80# (nor do I "need" 70# or even 60#, plenty of animals have been killed at lower draw weights), but I figure that if I can draw it comfortably, why not? More potential energy in the bow is always a good thing. I feel comfortable at 75# and will probably stick with that draw weight.

Sold - Left-Handed Elite Impulse 34, 70-80#

For sale: left-handed Elite Impulse 34 with 70-80 lb limbs, 28" (#7) & 28.5" (#6) draw length mods, snow camo pattern. $350 bare bow, shipping to lower 48 included.

www.rokslide.com

 

[5MilesBack]

Basically.......the difference between 70 and 80lb is 20fps given everything else is held the same. That's it. Of course KE and momentum changes as well, but those are down the line differences.

However, there could be "other" factors that come into play as well. My PSE has had a heck of a time with splintering 80lb limbs, BUT I also have it set at 32 7/8" measured draw length. I would imagine that that's a lot more bend in that part of the limbs. They've always splintered in the exact same spots on the thinnest part of the limbs.

My bow currently has a splintered limb from last August right before hunting season. PSE didn't have anymore of these limbs, so I just super-glued it and turned the bow down to about 70lbs for the season. That worked fine......for now.

I'll just say that 80lbs seems to have a "wear and tear" effect on things.......arrows also seem to break more easily, even in .200 spine.

 

[Ucsdryder]

This debate goes round and round and round and round. Some guys shooting 70lbs shouldn’t be and some guys shooting 80lbs shouldn’t be.

The bull I killed this year was face on at 7 or so yards. He came right to the call, and I pulled the trigger as he was still walking right at me, looking through me at my girlfriend calling 50 yards behind me. He was 99% head on but just slightly walking past me. The arrow entered right in the side of the neck and caught the shoulder. It punched a hole in the shoulder and made it far enough to get into the goodies. He made it 10 yards and fell over dead.

I was shooting 84lbs at 28.5” with a 560gr arrow around 275fps. Would I have gotten through that heavy shoulder muscle and bone with a 70lb bow? I honestly don’t think so based on the pictures below.

 

[CApighunter]

I’m in the same boat, shooting an elite ritual at 72lbs/31’’ but I’ve been thinking about bumping up to 80 in either a new PSE or Hoyt.

 

[5MilesBack]

I was shooting 84lbs at 28.5” with a 560gr arrow around 275fps. Would I have gotten through that heavy shoulder muscle and bone with a 70lb bow? I honestly don’t think so based on the pictures below.

What BH were you using? It's hard to tell exactly where on the shoulder blade it went through, but it is definitely square through the blade. Frankly, given your specs I'm surprised it didn't pass through the elk. Perhaps it hit the spine on the shoulder blade????

Energy helps but it's not everything when it comes to thicker bone. I hit a nice ram this year right at the top of his elbow with a mechanical head (GR Fatal Steel) and my setup with a 520gr arrow. It was videotaped by my buddy and when I saw the tape I was thinking "that was a good shot, what on earth". Looking at some of my pics of sheep it appears that the elbow goes much higher than it should depending on how they're standing. My arrow hit 1/3 of the way up the body, straight up the leg exactly where I was aiming, and literally got penetration only to where the BH meets the arrow......a whole one and a half inches. I'm not sure exactly where on bone it hit.......elbow or humerus, but either way.........not good. 1" higher and it wouldn't have been a problem.

To put it into perspective, I had just buried that same arrow and BH setup up to the fletching through ribs on a bull moose a few weeks earlier. And have even put one through the shoulder blade on a bull elk and got full penetration. But the elbow or humerus on a ram.......no go. The whole setup matters.

 

[MightyWhitey]

I can’t answer your question about the spec differences on paper, but I can give my field and tuning experience.

I bought my first 80lb bow this year, but I just learned from the previous two posts that its a fad. I don’t have tv, or any social media, or any flat billed hats, and I stopped going to and listening to what the guys at the bow shop say, so I was unaware. I bought it because somebody finally made a 39” ata bow in 80lbs. I wanted to start shooting heavier arrows this year and I can pull it so why not??

When I started this I did go to the bow shop, which ended up being a nightmare. I shoot intinctive, I shoot off of the string with a release, QAD drop away, and I cant
my bow a little like a recurve. We started shooting different spines and point weights and trimming arrows etc shooting through paper to see what it liked. Two days of this and nothing was working and they all blamed it on shooting off the string, canting my bow etc. and called it “good enough”. So I finally said please just make sure my cams are in time and I’ll take it from here.
I knew nothing about tuning arrows but did some research and with a arrow saw, homemade paper stand and several diff point weights/adjustable inserts I was shooting bullet holes in half a day shooting off the string and canting my bow.
With a 665gr arrow it’s the most quiet bow I’ve ever shot. Finding a arrow spined stiff enough for a 29.5” draw with 315gr up front was the hardest part of this whole process, but the grizzlystik 240 is what I chose. I haven’t owned a lot of bows, usually shoot them for 6+ years before getting a new one, but this setup is my favorite so far. So to hell with what the bow shop thinks. I haven’t been to one yet that hasn’t struggled with anything outside of what the magazines are pushing. Learn it for yourself. The only thing I regret is not doing it sooner.
As for the “dont need” 80lbs stuff? When things go right, absolutely not. I built my setup for when they don’t. I don’t need 4 wheel drive 350 days a year but I have it. You don’t need to hike 10 miles deep etc etc. But if I/you can do it, why not have/do it when needed.

And for all the “all about shot placement” that’s coming. Absolutely. But I stood shoulder to shoulder with my partner (Who can shoot circles around me in the yard) that shoots 400someodd gr arrows with mechanicals at 63lb draw, and watched him shoot damn near a foot over a bull that was 20yds inside his “all about shot placement” range.

Personally i can’t accept the idea of losing an animal to a misplaced shot or having to pass on a shot that I could’ve taken just because I’m shooting something thats less lethal in bad situations, when I’m fully physically capable of shooting something more lethal.

And it’s not like you have to start pulling 80 as soon as you pull it out of the box? If that’s an issue start at 70 and give it a full turn every other day, or whatever, till you can’t turn it anymore, then build some arrows?

My opinion: If you’re physically able, or want to be, then do it. If you don’t mind learning the tuning for yourself, do it. After that there’s no downside.

 

[cured_ham]

I have a pair of 80lb limbs sitting here that will be going n my Black 5 in the next week or two.

I have a 30.5 inch draw. I do not need the power. I just think it is neat. I like playing with things and I think it will be fun to see how I perform with the higher poundage.

Shoot whatever the hell you want. If you suck shooting 80lbs either get stronger or tune it down. Have fun with it!

 

[nphunter]

I think it depends on the person and what they want. I shot 77lbs for a long time and really enjoyed the bow, was easy to shoot and I had zero issues shooting it all day long, I used the exact same setup for 3D as well with no issues. I did have to replace two sets of limbs and the riser in the 7 years I shot that bow. They were all replaced under warranty.

I also shoot 28" draw and had no issues finding arrows, you could shoot 300 or 250 spine arrows depending on tip weight.

When I purchased my new bow I went ahead and got a 70lb bow for a couple of reasons, first the new bow shot the same arrow as my 7-year-old bow within a couple fps so I wouldn't be losing energy going to a lighter draw bow. I also have zero issues blowing through elk with a 500gr arrow and expandable broadheads with the energy I'm shooting so I didn't see a reason to need any more than I already have. I'm glad I moved back to a 70lb bow, it maxes out right at 72lbs and I shoot it very well at that weight. I'm shooting a 500gr arrow at 277fps which is right at the speed I like to shoot.

I have seen a lot of people shoot 80lbs and have to back the bow way off to shoot and they really struggled to shot the bow at 80lbs. Some people have more strength than others and that is what you should be using to decide what draw weight to shoot. You should be able to easily and slowly draw the bow back from any position when making that choice. This year I had to draw back on a bull while sitting on one foot and having my other foot way out in front of me on a hillside. I was lying down waiting for a bull to stand for an hour and another bull ran up and got him up, it was a very awkward position to draw a bow from and I was in the wide-open in front of the elk when he stood up.

 

[Beendare]

Im also a lefty, and shot an 80# compound for about 20 years, my take:

The compounds now have energy to burn....they already have plenty of energy at 60# to kill any animals in North America Making 80# overkill on top of overkill.

Also consider;
Shooting an 80# bow gets you a little more energy...but also more noise and vibration.....which is a big negative IMO.

Edit; regarding speed difference 70 to 80: most guys going up in weight shoot a heavier arrow, thus you will get a big increase in arrow energy.....but less of a noticeable trajectory improvement from the speed. If you chose to stick with the lighter arrow for more speed, then you will see increased vibration and bow noise.
Its all a tradeoff.....

——-

 

[Hoot]

I just ordered 80lb limbs for my new bow thats in the mail, it has 60lb limbs on it right now. Normally I shoot 70lbs.

I plan on shooting around 580 grains @29" at about 275fps or so...

on my 70lb bow I shoot 508 grains @29" at about 265 fps or so...

I may end up putting the 60 pound limbs back on and shooting 480 grains at 255 fps?

I will keep this bow for 4-5 years as well and wanted the option to tinker, so I bought 80# limbs, I like the idea of a super heavy arrow moving in that 275 range, should be quiet and will do well for when shots go wrongish

 

[Billy Goat]

I personally have seen a lot of people have a fair amount of problems when moving up in draw weight.

I know it was covered, but shot placement is the real deal. If you can shoot heavier and still have the accuracy then great. But many try to go for a setup to makeup for a poor shoot, when they then actually shoot that setup a lot worse, to where they need to makeup for a poor shot.
Which frequently doesn't go well.



Shoot what you can shoot well. I shot 75# for elk this year, your muscles are normally a little warmer chasing elk around the mountains, when I got back home to hunt whitetail in the east I dropped back to 65#. Few cold evenings even at 65# getting a smooth slow draw in on a WT was difficult, and I could sit flat on my butt and draw the 75# without moving the bow off target in August. Conditions can really dictate what you should shoot.

 

[Thess87]

Obviously the more weight you pull back the more is going foreword. Shoot what your comfortable with all the shoulder crap and the 70 is enough stuff wears me out. Everyone is built different and 45 lbs. is enough but everyone shoots more then that. Geuss everyone shooting over 45-50 lbs is just showing off or compensating for something

 

[Rob5589]

My shoulders are well past 80lb draw weight any more. I do think you'll like the draw cycle of the Evolve cam. It is just so nice and smooth, linear, and holds great. Definitely give it a try.

 

[chadcharb]

I am an 80# guy and have been long before Rogan was talking about it, it's not a fad, people have been shooting and tuning heavy draw weights for a long time. Is there pluses and minuses? Yes! Personally I shoot 80 because I primarily elk hunt and I want to shoot the heaviest arrow possible and try and stay in that 285 to 295fps range for trajectory and broadhead tuning. That's the big plus. I shoot a 610 grain arrow around 292 fps. But I will say if I was only going to own one bow it wouldn't be 80# simply for wear and tear on the body. If your going to be practicing, 3d shooting ect all with that bow you'll get tired of it quick. Also don't let anyone tell you you'll have trouble finding arrows because you won't. There's a bunch of 250 spine offerings out there. I'm 31" shooting 80# and I have no problem finding good quality arrows. So my advice, if you want 80#, do it but buy 2 bows or maybe just a second set of limbs and swap to the 80's a month before season. Also buy a bow from a company that designs for 80# limbs and not one that offers them as an after though. Don't forget if you buy 80 you'll also be able to do it close to 70 if it feels too much.

 

[Brizzle]

You can kill anything at #50 as long as you make a good shot, don’t shoot it in the shoulder. I would make sure you pick a weight you can pull 50+ times comfortably, practice makes perfect, not a faster arrow. I got pass throughs on every whitetail I shot this year using a 360gr arrow @#60, I can shoot #75 and use an overweight arrow but why? So I can tell people I shoot #75 and I’m current on internet trends? At a certain point it turns into bragging rights over results, use what you can draw comfortably, if you’re sky drawing and making a ton of movement you’re going to get busted eventually.