Advice Request - 20+ PP in Utah

[mnspotnstalk]

Hey guys,

Posting this on behalf of my dad, who has approximately 21 preference points in Utah. Neither of us, nor frankly anyone we know, has ever hunted the state. Wondering if anyone has advice on certain zones we should look at, basically trying to simplify the entire state search if possible. Not looking for anyone’s spot, just context to our search I guess.

He’s not concerned with bagging a true monster, even with his point count. Road access and opportunity are more important to him than anything. He’s not as hard charging as he once was, bow hunted CO for 20+ years but backcountry hunting is out of the question these days. He’d prefer the early season rifle areas, so the bulls are bugling. Lastly, he’s very against hiring a guide... against my constant protests. Doesn’t like the idea of someone looking over his shoulder, self conscience or something.

Any advice any of you would be willing to share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Al

 

[KineKilla]

That seems like a lot of elk points but I don't know what the draw odds are for a person with that many.

You'd have better luck narrowing it down to a few units then petitioning for help.

You have to consider what type of hunt you want.

Outfitted or DIY? Flying in and renting a vehicle or driving in? Packing camp with you or staying in a hotel? What is your physical condition? Weapon type?

So many factors...

If you want good road access I'd look at the Wasatch and Central Manti units. Thing is that the smart elk are aware of the easy access and you still have to work for them.

If you want to hunt amongst screaming bulls, look at the last week of early rifle or the muzzleloader hunts.

Shoot me a PM if you have specific questions.

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[gledeasy]

Another unit to add to the list would be Fishlake. It has a lot of road as well.

 

[rangerdye]

If he had 19 points going into last year, this chart is a decent list of the units/weapons he could draw this year. I excluded the late hunts based on your preference for bugling bulls (good choice IMO).

Source: https://utahbiggameodds.blogspot.com/

If he had 20, there a couple of additional units that he could potentially draw.

I hunted Manti in '17 and '19. Hunts were drastically different. Can share details if you want to PM me.

 

[sneaky]

He's in the no man's land for the really good units, but well above the mid tier units. Cross Cache Meadowville off the list unless you have private land access lined up.

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[mtnrunner260]

Don't cross off the muzzleloader. Still in bugles and basically no rules in UT so get a fancy one like arrowhead.

 

[Silentstalker]

Off the list of what you could draw I would do the central mountains Manti early rifle. But it’s a tougher hunt physically then the wasatch IMO. If he is limited in hiking ability go wasatch.

Both units have a lot of elk and a lot of roads.

 

[sneaky]

Don't forget to take 11 of your friends with you as well. Then you'll fit right in lol.

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[mnspotnstalk]

His physical ability is fairly good for his age, in my opinion. We hunt pronghorns in plateau type terrain Wyoming most years, and he can walk forever. It’s the steep up and down that he can’t do as well as he once did. Knees can’t do it and he runs out of gas much quicker.



I talked to him about muzzleloader options, and he didn’t seem very interested given the opportunity to use a rifle. We know some of the new muzzleloader’s have some incredible range, but he already owns two muzzleloaders equipped for CO and isn’t really interested in spending the money on another for a one-time hunt.



I guess the most important part of the decision making is reasonable terrain with good road access. The success rates in all of the units are pretty incredible, and a true monarch bull is not necessarily what he’s after. With that said, are there any units in addition to Wasatch you guys think we would look at?



I really appreciate all the feedback. Thank you guys.

 

[realunlucky]

Might seem trivial but does he have 20 or 21 points after the 2020 draw? That extra point makes a difference and some people automatically add a point for the 2021 draw which isn't correct if you use last year's odds.

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[nobody]

With the information you shared, I think the Wasatch will be as good of an option as anything. Having said that, I live smack in the Center of the Wasatch unit, and it's not everything it's cracked up to be as of late. A few years ago, they gave away like 4 times as many cow elk tags as normal and slaughtered all the breeding stock. Then, the next couple of years, they relocated a bunch of cows and young bulls to the Manti, Fish Lake, and a couple of other units in the state because of "overpopulation." All the long time residents and farmers in our home town complained enough that the DWR started hauling them off. There were even reports of old dudes just shooting the elk to get them off their hay and out of their pastures with their cows. Coupling that with some hard winters and dry years, and the population is significantly lower than it was 15 years ago, with a much lower success rate and bull quality than there was. We've seen it change first hand year after year, riding horses all over and hunting moose and watching for elk. Just not what it was.

And ditto on the Manti being rugged. The bull in my avatar came off the Manti in 2019, and boy did my dad and I work for him. We saw lots and lots of elk, tons of bulls, and two evenings in a row sat overlooking and glassing a basin that held at least 15 bugling bulls with no trails or roads in or out that we could find. It's statistically the largest herd in the state and has been for a long time now, and I believe it 100%. However, your dad may die trying to hike some of these areas. Not being rude, just being honest. Every fold and every canyon holds 2 or 3 potential herd bulls, plus a few satellite bulls, but you'll be dead at the end of it all. I killed my bull on day 4 and we had hiked 32 miles of walking distance total all over, moved camp once (to get to a better spot to access some canyons first thing in the morning, not because we weren't finding elk), and it took us from 2:30 in the afternoon to 8:00 at night to get my bull to the road from where we killed him, about a half mile from the road is all. We had him broken down and caped by 3:30, but it took us 4.5 hours to carry 4 quarters, 3 bags of meat, and the head and cape 1/2 mile up an insane grade and over so much deadfall it was like giants were playing pickup sticks. Then we had a 4 mile trek to the Jeep after that. We had walked a 6 mile loop from the jeep, down a finger ridge, across an open canyon, up a steep face to a small flat on the face to where this bull was rutting his cows, and we had started walking at about 7:30 in the morning.

My dad is a competitive road biker and rides well over 120 miles a week every summer, and I'm a power lifter and runner who averages about 50 miles of running every week during the summer plus an hour of weight training 6 days a week. My point is we are in good shape (significantly better shape than the average bear, I would say), and it took us 7 hours to cover 6 miles on the Manti with no weight on our backs, then 4.5 hours to carry this bull out and get him to the road. Yes, there are lots of roads, but not lots of good access points to the good elk country. But the nice thing is that the elk seem to know this and will hang out not too far from the roads in the right spots, because they know nobody is gonna walk in and bug them.

Sorry, I know I shared a lot of Debbie Downer info, but I would hate for him to draw the tag and not be able to get where the elk are. I met an old guy on my hunt who had some limited mobility, and it just killed him that he couldn't get in where the elk were. He ended up killing a small 5 point because he was dumb enough to come in close to the road, but he said he had watched some really big suckers at a distance and couldn't do anything about it because he couldn't get to them because of terrain. Good luck to you guys, feel free to PM me with any questions.

 

[mnspotnstalk]

Might seem trivial but does he have 20 or 21 points after the 2020 draw? That extra point makes a difference and some people automatically add a point for the 2021 draw which isn't correct if you use last year's odds.

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20 after 2020, but he won’t be applying in 2021, potentially not even 2022.