Air taxi requires Splitting horns/moose skull, common?

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In Alaska: splitting the antlers in the field would be illegal in areas with antler restrictions. It's perfectly legal in unrestricted GMUs and zones, with documentation to prove the kill location. So my take on this is the pilot is (in your case) putting you in 20B or another unrestricted area if one exists. If not, avoid him.

"If it fits in the plane it fly's flies."

I always appreciate with Kevin Dill gets involved in a thread. A straight shooter who knows his stuff. Some day I'll hunt Alaska and I know Kevin's comment and those of other good Alaska residents will be very helpful.
 

AKDoc

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In Alaska: splitting the antlers in the field would be illegal in areas with antler restrictions. It's perfectly legal in unrestricted GMUs and zones, with documentation to prove the kill location. So my take on this is the pilot is (in your case) putting you in 20B or another unrestricted area if one exists. If not, avoid him.

I assumed when first reading the post that the transporter must be dropping within a specific unit, subunit, or area within a subunit without antler restrictions, so I didn't say anything. If not, you are absolutely correct sir...

Antlers must be salvaged where there are antler restrictions; such antlers must remain naturally attached to the unbroken or uncut skull plate if the required number of brow tines are not present. If antlers must be salvaged, they may not be altered prior to completion of all salvage requirements...

I am glad you said something KD because it certainly sensitizes prospective hunters to ask the transporter and be sure... (edited: added the following) and double-check the regulations and even discuss the specific regulation parameters directly with ADFG to be extra sure.

Also, the regulations (above and previously posted by another member of the Rokslide community) are pretty specific that in an antler restricted area, you can only split the skull cap if you are able to show that the brow-tine requirement is met (typically four or more on at lest one side, but the hunter should always check ahead of time because regulations do change from year to year). I've seen many large bulls over the years that were way beyond 50" that had only two or three brow-tines.

Also, I respect the OP for not openly mentioning the name of the transporter. I'm going to continue to assume that the transporter knows the rules and is following the rules....although sadly that is not always the case.
 
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jakelogsdon

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I'd just be concerned about being in a "gray area" and ever subjecting someones bull to confiscation. That's why I was asking earlier if its ever stated in black and white, when or at what point is it ever legal to split the rack if the Bull was harvested in a GMU with antler restrictions, (assuming it doesnt have the brow tine requirements)
 

AKDoc

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I'd just be concerned about being in a "gray area" and ever subjecting someones bull to confiscation. That's why I was asking earlier if its ever stated in black and white, when or at what point is it ever legal to split the rack if the Bull was harvested in a GMU with antler restrictions, (assuming it doesnt have the brow tine requirements)

I hunt an "any bull" area, which makes life much easier.

I agree with you that "gray area" is never a good place to stand with regulations. I'd be in dialogue directly with ADFG regarding all the specific parameters of the applicable regulations regarding when you can and can not split the skull cap of a legal bull in an antler restricted area. As just one example, I'd for sure want specific clarity of the following regulation content as it pertains to antlers with proof of legal brow tines, "...they may not be altered prior to completion of all salvage requirements."
 
OP
mooster

mooster

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I'd just be concerned about being in a "gray area" and ever subjecting someones bull to confiscation. That's why I was asking earlier if its ever stated in black and white, when or at what point is it ever legal to split the rack if the Bull was harvested in a GMU with antler restrictions, (assuming it doesnt have the brow tine requirements)
This hunt will be in a 50” or 4 brow tine area. I’ve asked for clarification from the transporter and the reply is they are researching how to respond. Apparently all bulls transported last year were 4 brow tines or more. One B&C bull was transported intact under special circumstances.
 

jakelogsdon

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This hunt will be in a 50” or 4 brow tine area. I’ve asked for clarification from the transporter and the reply is they are researching how to respond. Apparently all bulls transported last year were 4 brow tines or more. One B&C bull was transported intact under special circumstances.
I'm curious if anyone has heard any input from ADFG about this trend and the potential issues that could arise. You're definitely doing the right thing by asking questions. Most people probably wouldn't even think about it.
 

Larry Bartlett

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from an aesthetic point of view, don't worry about cutting your antlers at the pedicle (below the antler and above the skull). I had a velvet european done on a big bull, and the Taxidermist cut the antlers off to preserve the antlers and boiled the skull and bleached it. Once done, i got back the same european with the horns reattached. A good taxidermist can do this in his sleep from what I've learned.

small planes have limits and the operators know what they need to get it done. Trust it'll be okay.

my two cents

lb
 
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In general, I've noticed that many nonresident hunters don't get tight with the regulations where they're hunting. If a guide, transporter or other local source tells the hunter that something is okay (or not okay) to do, they take that as truth. And it probably IS the truth 95% of the time, but it's the 5% that'll potentially haunt you. Being the gigantic and varied state it is, Alaska has a huge number of area-specific and species-specific regs. The state doesn't give you or me a pass if we follow bad or unknowing advice from a pilot. It's our moose hunt and hopefully our moose. The very best thing any of us can do is to get very familiar with all the laws and regs pertaining to the animal and the area we're hunting. Bring a copy into camp if it helps.

Lest this sounds like I'm impugning the advice of a pilot or outfitter, I'm not. Larry is spot-on....some trust is required. These guys have a stake in not being involved in violations which take time, harm reputations and hurt business. You should simply know the law, follow the law.....and keep your eye on others around you to do the same.
 
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mooster

mooster

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Something to fuel the fire-->

I'm a sucker for euro mounts as well. And not just because they're cheaper than a shoulder mount. For whatever reason I just feel like I'm paying more reverence to them (no judgment just preference)

Best of luck on your hunt.
Yeah looking around my cabin I count 11 skulls, euros, only one shoulder mount. Kind of my thing too.
 

OldCrusty

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Twin Cedar
What is going on is the Airplane insurance companies are applying new regulations these Transporter and Air-Taxi Services (You need to know the difference) MUST comply with these new Insurance regulations or pay hefty premiums.
You and I pay car insurance and complain about our premiums however when it comes to Airplane insurance for commercial use prepare to pay THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS monthly to stay in business. Now if a Transporter decides to add "external loads" to his Insurance plan then he must prepare to add additional thousands of dollars to his already skyrocketed insurance premium.
za
Additionally NO pilot (private or Comercial ) may fly with exterior loads (Moose-Caribou Racks) outside of their plane with "other People" in the plane.

No problems if the racks fit inside the plane along with your gear and hunters, just not outside.
You do have options by scheduling additional flights at a VERY HIGH PRICE to have your racks flown separately however it depends on your wallet size AND your transporter scheduling.

All the rules and regulations folks have been showing above located in the "Alaska Fish and Game Regs" are ONLY general guidelines and not the mandated regulations.
Let me explain: If a person goes to court in validation of regulations shown in the regulations both the officer and the judge will not pick up the hunting regulations and reference the page it is located on.
Rather he will reference Alaska statute Title 5 AAC 92.150(c) of the title code that just so happens to be the Code you need to look up referencing "splitting of racks".

One more very important consideration: If you do find a Transporter / Air-Taxi Service ( they are very different) and they are willing to fly your racks out "with you in the plane" their insurance will NOT COVER YOU - or the Transporter in the event of a mishap...

I hope this helps
 
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mooster

mooster

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Twin Cedar
What is going on is the Airplane insurance companies are applying new regulations these Transporter and Air-Taxi Services (You need to know the difference) MUST comply with these new Insurance regulations or pay hefty premiums.
You and I pay car insurance and complain about our premiums however when it comes to Airplane insurance for commercial use prepare to pay THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS monthly to stay in business. Now if a Transporter decides to add "external loads" to his Insurance plan then he must prepare to add additional thousands of dollars to his already skyrocketed insurance premium.
za
Additionally NO pilot (private or Comercial ) may fly with exterior loads (Moose-Caribou Racks) outside of their plane with "other People" in the plane.

No problems if the racks fit inside the plane along with your gear and hunters, just not outside.
You do have options by scheduling additional flights at a VERY HIGH PRICE to have your racks flown separately however it depends on your wallet size AND your transporter scheduling.

All the rules and regulations folks have been showing above located in the "Alaska Fish and Game Regs" are ONLY general guidelines and not the mandated regulations.
Let me explain: If a person goes to court in validation of regulations shown in the regulations both the officer and the judge will not pick up the hunting regulations and reference the page it is located on.
Rather he will reference Alaska statute Title 5 AAC 92.150(c) of the title code that just so happens to be the Code you need to look up referencing "splitting of racks".

One more very important consideration: If you do find a Transporter / Air-Taxi Service ( they are very different) and they are willing to fly your racks out "with you in the plane" their insurance will NOT COVER YOU - or the Transporter in the event of a mishap...

I hope this helps
Thanks. Appreciate your thorough explanation. That said, we have already committed to an additional flight for the moose meat, two hunters expect to harvest two moose, so passenger won’t be flown as same time as the head/rack since it’s just a meat run.
 

OldCrusty

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In Alaska: splitting the antlers in the field would be illegal in areas with antler restrictions. It's perfectly legal in unrestricted GMUs and zones, with documentation to prove the kill location. So my take on this is the pilot is (in your case) putting you in 20B or another unrestricted area if one exists. If not, avoid him

As a pilot my self you should read the law more before telling people to avoid someone.

Here is the quote within the Alaska F&G regulations-->. (Antlers must be salvaged where there are antler restrictions; such antlers must remain naturally attached to the unbroken or uncut skull plate if the required number of brow tines are not present.)
Pay special attention to the last 10 words, (if the required number of brow tines are not present). This is what matters.

This is taken on page four of the Alaska fish and game regulation book. --->. This publication is an INTERPRETIVE SUMMARY of the Alaska Hunting Regulations and contains rules, which affect most hunters, which have been simplified for your convenience. IT IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT AND IT IS NOT QUOTED VERBATIM STATE LAW.
The highlighted words above are all that matters.

In closing: Taken from page two of the Alaska F&G book--->The regulations in this publication are taken from Title 5, Alaska Administrative Code and
Title 16 of Alaska Statutes, both available for inspection at any Alaska Department of Fish and Game office.

Everything mentioned above ONLY DEALS with Alaska Fish and Game regulations and NOTHING to do with FAA Federal aviation administration OR Flight Insurance... Both having THEIR OWN regulations for antlers outside of the aircraft..

Bottom line: THE PRICE FOR SUCCESS CAN BE EXPENSIVE

I hope this helps people realize more about aviation and the HIGH cost of ownership in Alaska.
 
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I spoke with two people in the Fairbanks office of ADF&G about this today. They were surprised by the transporters requirement. And both of them agreed that if a bull is legal by width only, not having at least four brow tines on one side, in a 50” / 4 brow tines unit, prior to arriving back in Fairbanks would be a violation of the law.

They said if the bull has the brow tines, no problem splitting the rack.

They also confirmed that the antlers must be brought out of the field in antler restricted units. They said that “out of the field” meant once the plane lands in Fairbanks.
 
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Eagle River, AK
flying in a 185, i dont see how they could get everything out in 1 load anyways. I feel like its going to be 2 flights regardless, not sure how they couldnt throw the antlers on the meat flight. Just shoot a 70" with 2 browtines and make them tie it to the struts. shouldnt be a problem right! Make sure to tell them you are a WKR.
 
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mooster

mooster

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flying in a 185, i dont see how they could get everything out in 1 load anyways. I feel like its going to be 2 flights regardless, not sure how they couldnt throw the antlers on the meat flight. Just shoot a 70" with 2 browtines and make them tie it to the struts. shouldnt be a problem right! Make sure to tell them you are a WKR.
In my particular case, the pilot indicated his insurance wouldn't allow anything strapped or tied on. He said the cost of getting coverage to do so was $20 or $30K, so can understand for only a few fights a year it would he hard for him to rationalize.
 
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