Alaska Summit Guide Service

[Mudslinger]

Has anyone hunted with Alaska Summit Guide Service with Scott McRae? I'm looking at booking with him. Seems like a great guy.

 

[kscowboy01]

I did a successful sheep hunt with him in 2013. He is a great guy. You are welcome to contact me.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Just for your information.

Alaska Summit Guide Service does not have a sole use federal concession. And the unit is inundated with multiple commercial guiding operations. One of the most heavily hunted (if not the most) GMU’s for Dall sheep in Alaska. Along with Alaska residents thrown into that mix and it is a potential crowded situation NO MATER WHAT THE GUIDE advertises. Year to year it can change drastically with commercial guides not having mandatory set areas. One can just move in and set up operations on an otherwise good guiding camp and there is nothing that can me done. Happens every year!

The first question I would ask if I was a prospective Alaska non resident sheep hunter would be:

“Do your sheep hunts operate on a federal sole use concession”? If the answer is no the next question would be “are your sheep hunts on a limited draw”. If the answer is no to both of those questions I would consider looking elsewhere....there are very FEW Alaska sheep hunts I’d fork funds over to go on that are not operated on a federal sole use concession permit. If they don’t have a Federal sole use concession area/limited drawing area then they operate on AK state land, which means bottom line......an unlimited number of guides can sell an unlimited number of sheep hunts to an unlimited number of non residents in “their” area.

Alaska needs a serious change in how we manage our commercial operations/guides in this state. The free for all on state land does not work.

Are their a good group of guides that operate on state land and the short answer is yes. A very very few amount of outfitters I would even consider. A few are on this site regularly.

Alaska’s bad reputation of “poor” Dall sheep hunting in the last decade or so comes (for the most part) from the uneducated non residents who had a bad experience but no clue we have two distinct management systems in our commercial hunting. And their hunt most likely was crowded with other hunters with very few legal rams to be seen.

Federal sole use concessions are very simple. One guide selling a set limit of sheep hunts....period (in a nutshell...the sole use permit and the sheep hunter quota is set by the federal land manager)

Canadian outfitters use the exact same system.

I often post this in this sheep hunting thread and my only goal is to educate the unsuspecting non residents. Most guides and booking agents don’t want to discuss this......some guides, believe it or not.....are so ignorant to the fact these guides don’t even know there is a two tier system in Alaska on guide use. I’ve personally talked to a dozen plus assistant guides and one registered guide who had no clue.

And past clients whether they had a good experience or a bad one........most Have NO CLUE about this “dirty secret” Alaska has on state land. Not just for sheep but for all gudied animals. But my passion is sheep hunting and I am sick and tired of Alaska getting a bad rep and non residents getting screwed over. Alaska state land hunting operations in these overcrowded areas should be getting this bad rep, not the entire state. Our top tier federal concession sheep areas are as good or better than Canadian outfitters WITHOUT question. With 4 year out bookings, the quality speaks for itself.

Sorry if you were not looking for this amount of info. It’s my goal to get the info to non residents and they do what they want with it. I go to the sheep show in Reno every year for the last decade and I talk with 500 plus people on this exact topic at the show.

I have only received positive feedback from both Alaska guides, non residents and Alaska residents alike by posting this info. The ones who don’t like it won’t say a word because they know the truth and AK
needs some help.

This system needs to change but Alaskas many bureaucrats don’t seem to want to get behind and change it. Perhaps when enough non residents demand a better hunt and stop spending the dollars in our state on these state land free for all hunts that will get their attention to change it.

 

[Mudslinger]

Thanks for the info Double

 

[wind gypsy]

Good advice here.

That said, there are outfitters that seem to do at least as well (on a success rate and opportunity basis) as the sole use concession folks, but you do run the risk of other guided hunters being nearby.

Edit to add: The context of how likely other competition is to ruin your hunt is likely different in different areas, I'd get a good understanding of how it comes in to play where you are booking. The wild card is that these situations can change in the time between booking your hunt and going on your hunt.

 

[chisana]

Just for your information.

Alaska Summit Guide Service does not have a sole use federal concession. And the unit is inundated with multiple commercial guiding operations. One of the most heavily hunted (if not the most) GMU’s for Dall sheep in Alaska. Along with Alaska residents thrown into that mix and it is a potential crowded situation NO MATER WHAT THE GUIDE advertises. Year to year it can change drastically with commercial guides not having mandatory set areas. One can just move in and set up operations on an otherwise good guiding camp and there is nothing that can me done. Happens every year!

The first question I would ask if I was a prospective Alaska non resident sheep hunter would be:

“Do your sheep hunts operate on a federal sole use concession”? If the answer is no the next question would be “are your sheep hunts on a limited draw”. If the answer is no to both of those questions I would consider looking elsewhere....there are very FEW Alaska sheep hunts I’d fork funds over to go on that are not operated on a federal sole use concession permit. If they don’t have a Federal sole use concession area/limited drawing area then they operate on AK state land, which means bottom line......an unlimited number of guides can sell an unlimited number of sheep hunts to an unlimited number of non residents in “their” area.

Alaska needs a serious change in how we manage our commercial operations/guides in this state. The free for all on state land does not work.

Are their a good group of guides that operate on state land and the short answer is yes. A very very few amount of outfitters I would even consider. A few are on this site regularly.

Alaska’s bad reputation of “poor” Dall sheep hunting in the last decade or so comes (for the most part) from the uneducated non residents who had a bad experience but no clue we have two distinct management systems in our commercial hunting. And their hunt most likely was crowded with other hunters with very few legal rams to be seen.

Federal sole use concessions are very simple. One guide selling a set limit of sheep hunts....period (in a nutshell...the sole use permit and the sheep hunter quota is set by the federal land manager)

Canadian outfitters use the exact same system.

I often post this in this sheep hunting thread and my only goal is to educate the unsuspecting non residents. Most guides and booking agents don’t want to discuss this......some guides, believe it or not.....are so ignorant to the fact these guides don’t even know there is a two tier system in Alaska on guide use. I’ve personally talked to a dozen plus assistant guides and one registered guide who had no clue.

And past clients whether they had a good experience or a bad one........most Have NO CLUE about this “dirty secret” Alaska has on state land. Not just for sheep but for all gudied animals. But my passion is sheep hunting and I am sick and tired of Alaska getting a bad rep and non residents getting screwed over. Alaska state land hunting operations in these overcrowded areas should be getting this bad rep, not the entire state. Our top tier federal concession sheep areas are as good or better than Canadian outfitters WITHOUT question. With 4 year out bookings, the quality speaks for itself.

Sorry if you were not looking for this amount of info. It’s my goal to get the info to non residents and they do what they want with it. I go to the sheep show in Reno every year for the last decade and I talk with 500 plus people on this exact topic at the show.

I have only received positive feedback from both Alaska guides, non residents and Alaska residents alike by posting this info. The ones who don’t like it won’t say a word because they know the truth and AK
needs some help.

This system needs to change but Alaskas many bureaucrats don’t seem to want to get behind and change it. Perhaps when enough non residents demand a better hunt and stop spending the dollars in our state on these state land free for all hunts that will get their attention to change it.

Good post. How do you think a guide concession program on state land would impact Alaska resident hunters? Also, what do you believe are the factors that led to the guide concession bill not be passed in the Alaska legislature?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Good post. How do you think a guide concession program on state land would impact Alaska resident hunters? Also, what do you believe are the factors that led to the guide concession bill not be passed in the Alaska legislature?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I don’t want to hijack this guys thread but the short answer is:

There will be less guides in the field for all species not just sheep of a state land concession program would be adopted. We would be managing our guiding industries just like Canadian and L48 western states. Each guide would have an “ownership” of their area. Able to manage the resources for years to come not so short sighted and a vacuum cleaner mentality like a lot Do now. Right now it’s a free for all.

Yes a lot of guides will not have an area and go out of business. Too bad. The overtaking and poor quality hunts NEED to come to an end in our state.

This will benefit both residents and non residents in all game species hunts. Our best hunts currently are on federal concession lands bottom line. I can hunt anywhere in this state and I ONLY hunt Federal Concessioned land use areas. Not that these concessioned area effect me on rules and regulation but for the same reason I encourage non residents to hunt on on these land areas........way less crowded conditions. Only one commercial operator.

Political reasons is the only answer as I have to why it’s not being implemented.

But in this particular area that the author of this thread is looking to hunt, a board of game (BOG) proposal this year to limit non residents to 50 sheep draw tags (in GMU 19 and 20) will do the same thing. But the problem with this is guides will never be able to have ownership of their area. Still a free for all just limited by the state of Alaska.

It’s a step in the right direction but does nothing to cut down on guiding activities for any other species in these areas just sheep.

I hope it passes. There was a lot of support for it.

As for the state land concession program. That is backed by the largest pro guide group in Alaska. The Alaska Professional Hunters Association (APHA).

 

[Doc Holliday]

Just for your information.

Alaska Summit Guide Service does not have a sole use federal concession. And the unit is inundated with multiple commercial guiding operations. One of the most heavily hunted (if not the most) GMU’s for Dall sheep in Alaska. Along with Alaska residents thrown into that mix and it is a potential crowded situation NO MATER WHAT THE GUIDE advertises. Year to year it can change drastically with commercial guides not having mandatory set areas. One can just move in and set up operations on an otherwise good guiding camp and there is nothing that can me done. Happens every year!

The first question I would ask if I was a prospective Alaska non resident sheep hunter would be:

“Do your sheep hunts operate on a federal sole use concession”? If the answer is no the next question would be “are your sheep hunts on a limited draw”. If the answer is no to both of those questions I would consider looking elsewhere....there are very FEW Alaska sheep hunts I’d fork funds over to go on that are not operated on a federal sole use concession permit. If they don’t have a Federal sole use concession area/limited drawing area then they operate on AK state land, which means bottom line......an unlimited number of guides can sell an unlimited number of sheep hunts to an unlimited number of non residents in “their” area.

Alaska needs a serious change in how we manage our commercial operations/guides in this state. The free for all on state land does not work.

Are their a good group of guides that operate on state land and the short answer is yes. A very very few amount of outfitters I would even consider. A few are on this site regularly.

Alaska’s bad reputation of “poor” Dall sheep hunting in the last decade or so comes (for the most part) from the uneducated non residents who had a bad experience but no clue we have two distinct management systems in our commercial hunting. And their hunt most likely was crowded with other hunters with very few legal rams to be seen.

Federal sole use concessions are very simple. One guide selling a set limit of sheep hunts....period (in a nutshell...the sole use permit and the sheep hunter quota is set by the federal land manager)

Canadian outfitters use the exact same system.

I often post this in this sheep hunting thread and my only goal is to educate the unsuspecting non residents. Most guides and booking agents don’t want to discuss this......some guides, believe it or not.....are so ignorant to the fact these guides don’t even know there is a two tier system in Alaska on guide use. I’ve personally talked to a dozen plus assistant guides and one registered guide who had no clue.

And past clients whether they had a good experience or a bad one........most Have NO CLUE about this “dirty secret” Alaska has on state land. Not just for sheep but for all gudied animals. But my passion is sheep hunting and I am sick and tired of Alaska getting a bad rep and non residents getting screwed over. Alaska state land hunting operations in these overcrowded areas should be getting this bad rep, not the entire state. Our top tier federal concession sheep areas are as good or better than Canadian outfitters WITHOUT question. With 4 year out bookings, the quality speaks for itself.

Sorry if you were not looking for this amount of info. It’s my goal to get the info to non residents and they do what they want with it. I go to the sheep show in Reno every year for the last decade and I talk with 500 plus people on this exact topic at the show.

I have only received positive feedback from both Alaska guides, non residents and Alaska residents alike by posting this info. The ones who don’t like it won’t say a word because they know the truth and AK
needs some help.

This system needs to change but Alaskas many bureaucrats don’t seem to want to get behind and change it. Perhaps when enough non residents demand a better hunt and stop spending the dollars in our state on these state land free for all hunts that will get their attention to change it.

Which unit is this?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Nick Muche]

Steve, that proposal did not pass.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Steve, that proposal did not pass.

Of course it didn’t! Again politics. Thanks Nick.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Which unit is this?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

19

 

[chisana]

I don’t want to hijack this guys thread but the short answer is:

There will be less guides in the field for all species not just sheep of a state land concession program would be adopted. We would be managing our guiding industries just like Canadian and L48 western states. Each guide would have an “ownership” of their area. Able to manage the resources for years to come not so short sighted and a vacuum cleaner mentality like a lot Do now. Right now it’s a free for all.

Yes a lot of guides will not have an area and go out of business. Too bad. The overtaking and poor quality hunts NEED to come to an end in our state.

This will benefit both residents and non residents in all game species hunts. Our best hunts currently are on federal concession lands bottom line. I can hunt anywhere in this state and I ONLY hunt Federal Concessioned land use areas. Not that these concessioned area effect me on rules and regulation but for the same reason I encourage non residents to hunt on on these land areas........way less crowded conditions. Only one commercial operator.

Political reasons is the only answer as I have to why it’s not being implemented.

But in this particular area that the author of this thread is looking to hunt, a board of game (BOG) proposal this year to limit non residents to 50 sheep draw tags (in GMU 19 and 20) will do the same thing. But the problem with this is guides will never be able to have ownership of their area. Still a free for all just limited by the state of Alaska.

It’s a step in the right direction but does nothing to cut down on guiding activities for any other species in these areas just sheep.

I hope it passes. There was a lot of support for it.

As for the state land concession program. That is backed by the largest pro guide group in Alaska. The Alaska Professional Hunters Association (APHA).

At this point it appears a guide concession program on state land is way off in the future. It will be interesting to see what happens with the BOG now that there will be a new chair. Could be increased interest in restricting the amount of sheep available to nonresidents under a new chair.

 

[Chubscout]

I hunted with Scott in ‘18 on a goat hunt which he has a sole concession. I’m booked with him for this year to hunt sheep with. If there’s that many “local” hunters in his spot, His clients still pulled some damn nice rams last season.

 

[AlaskaEd]

It’s not about “local” hunters, they can go anywhere they want that isn’t a draw or national park. It’s that guides can contract as many clients as will give them money in state land non-concession areas. So in theory an unscrupulous guide company (or multiple guides) could clear out an area one year, move on to the area you are hoping to hunt the next, and begin to clear it out. The only thing you can do is go somewhere else.

Not all the good guides are on concessions, so you just have to do your research. Good guides are aware of this, and do their best to monitor and take care of their areas year after year. Sounds like you are doing your research, an that Scott is a great guide from the first hand reports here.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

I hunted with Scott in ‘18 on a goat hunt which he has a sole concession. I’m booked with him for this year to hunt sheep with. If there’s that many “local” hunters in his spot, His clients still pulled some damn nice rams last season.

I hunted with Scott in ‘18 on a goat hunt which he has a sole concession. I’m booked with him for this year to hunt sheep with. If there’s that many “local” hunters in his spot, His clients still pulled some damn nice rams last season.

It is not about the local hunters at all. It is about the unregulated commercial activity because there are no limits on guides in the area Alaska Summit Guide Service operates in the Alaska Range. It is 100 percent on state land.

The original op asked about this particular operation and I am just stating fact that it is an unregulated area that can vary year to year with commercial operations. There is not a chance as a non resident that I’d spend money on this particular outfit with them operating in a non permit state land hunt. There are plenty of federal land sole concession holders that provide a much better hunting opportunity for a non resident. Just like this particular outfitter does on his goat hunts.

 

[Chubscout]

It is not about the local hunters at all. It is about the unregulated commercial activity because there are no limits on guides in the area Alaska Summit Guide Service operates in the Alaska Range. It is 100 percent on state land.

The original op asked about this particular operation and I am just stating fact that it is an unregulated area that can vary year to year with commercial operations. There is not a chance as a non resident that I’d spend money on this particular outfit with them operating in a non permit state land hunt. There are plenty of federal land sole concession holders that provide a much better hunting opportunity for a non resident. Just like this particular outfitter does on his goat hunts.

Look Steve I’m not gonna go back and forth with you about this because it’s you opinion, but the guy asked about the outfitter, not on the thoughts of how the state should be run.
furthermore, I feel that bashing outfitters or guides or any of this is being a bit shortsided. Just let him book with whoever.

 

[Tanner]

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it, some of the best hunts and outfitters in the state are on non-federal sole use lands. A good hunt and federal sole use land are not mutually exclusive.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Look Steve I’m not gonna go back and forth with you about this because it’s you opinion, but the guy asked about the outfitter, not on the thoughts of how the state should be run.
furthermore, I feel that bashing outfitters or guides or any of this is being a bit shortsided. Just let him book with whoever.

Of course he can book with whoever. But most non residents don’t have a clue about our Alaskas problem of state land hunting vs federal sole use concessions areas, you included.

This is a 100 percent public forum and this op asked a question on a particular guide. I will give whatever opinion and say whatever I feel is nessesary for this op to pick the best outfitters available in Alaska. I personally didn’t mention guys I would go with, I was just giving him the FACTS on one he is considering. My goal is for non residents to stop getting screwed over by free for all guides working state land (which in some cases by no fault of the guide working these free for all areas just bad management practices of the state allowing these overcrowded areas) and getting Alaska back to a state land concession program that mirrors the federal program through economic impact.

Im curious how much you even know of this subject other than what has been presented in this thread? I never bashed this guide at all. Just simply stated fact.....he hunts in one the most (if not the most) crowded areas in Alaska in which any guide and an unlimited amount can set up there operation anywhere on state land.

This is not bashing a particular guide. You don’t feel that is important information a non resident spending $19K plus should know? I know when I go to hunt Stones in BC I would hope a knowledgeable resident and guide could cut through the salesman BS and give me an unbiased opinion of a particular guide and their hunt area before I spent my savings on that hunt.

I take it with your comments, you feel nobody can say anything negative about a particular guide when asked about?

Sorry but if a business is being run in a bad part of a state on a loop hole in the law that allows overcrowding I will warn other unsuspecting non residents. Spend your money how you see fit. Don’t try to discredit my knowledge of this subject with the op of this thread or others who are out doing research.

It appears you have very little “on the ground knowledge” of this subject so there is that as well.

 

[adventure907]

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it, some of the best hunts and outfitters in the state are on non-federal sole use lands. A good hunt and federal sole use land are not mutually exclusive.

What Tanner said above is the truth of the matter.

Frankly, there are a number of outfits with federal concessions that I wouldn't recommend even if their hunts were free.

 

[Chubscout]

Of course he can book with whoever. But most non residents don’t have a clue about our Alaskas problem of state land hunting vs federal sole use concessions areas, you included.

This is a 100 percent public forum and this op asked a question on a particular guide. I will give whatever opinion and say whatever I feel is nessesary for this op to pick the best outfitters available in Alaska. I personally didn’t mention guys I would go with, I was just giving him the FACTS on one he is considering. My goal is for non residents to stop getting screwed over by free for all guides working state land (which in some cases by no fault of the guide working these free for all areas just bad management practices of the state allowing these overcrowded areas) and getting Alaska back to a state land concession program that mirrors the federal program through economic impact.

Im curious how much you even know of this subject other than what has been presented in this thread? I never bashed this guide at all. Just simply stated fact.....he hunts in one the most (if not the most) crowded areas in Alaska in which any guide and an unlimited amount can set up there operation anywhere on state land.

This is not bashing a particular guide. You don’t feel that is important information a non resident spending $19K plus should know? I know when I go to hunt Stones in BC I would hope a knowledgeable resident and guide could cut through the salesman BS and give me an unbiased opinion of a particular guide and their hunt area before I spent my savings on that hunt.

I take it with your comments, you feel nobody can say anything negative about a particular guide when asked about?

Sorry but if a business is being run in a bad part of a state on a loop hole in the law that allows overcrowding I will warn other unsuspecting non residents. Spend your money how you see fit. Don’t try to discredit my knowledge of this subject with the op of this thread or others who are out doing research.

It appears you have very little “on the ground knowledge” of this subject so there is that as well.

You’re right, I don’t know everything about Alaska, only been there once. And again this summer. Saying weather an outfitters spot is good or not when you don’t work for them is kinda low. There’s a lot of guys out there that over hunt/ book their private leases. There’s no perfect spot.