Allowing your son/daughter to punch your tag? Thoughts...

[bsnedeker]

Maybe, maybe not. Sure there are some scumbags out there (undoubtedly some of you guys think I am) but there are far more good people out there than bad.

Telling people to change laws sounds so great until you realize exactly what that process entails. And that ultimately the vast majority of laws in this country are made by appointed individuals in organizations who have no accountability to the people. Sometimes you can influence a change and sometimes you can't.

I would recommend you open up a history book. We used to run our game laws with everyone just doing whatever they wanted and we damn near wiped every big game animal off the face of the continent. It took sportsman coming together to petition the government to add game regulations that turned the tide which is what now allows us to have such rich hunting opportunities.

 

[mlgc20]

I understand the "this rule is arbitrary so I'm not following it logic". And being a Libertarian, I even share it in a lot of ways. But, I think many of us overestimate our knowledge and understanding on many of these rules. So, what may seem arbitrary to us is actually well reasoned and purposeful. It happens every year in Yellowstone. People wonder why the park tells you to stay on the path. "I'm not staying on this arbitrary path. I will go wherever I want." They end up dead in some cases. Purely because what they saw as arbitrary was actually there for a reason. These aren't idiots or scumbags (necessarily). But, people who got themselves into trouble by thinking they knew better or that the rules didn't apply to them.

And many rules seem arbitrary when applied to one person. But, make much more sense when applied to a population. "Who really gets hurt if I take one extra duck than my limit? That limit is arbitrary anyway. One extra duck killed won't matter." That is all probably true. But, if all duck hunters decided that limits were arbitrary and didn't apply to them, I guarantee it would matter.

 

[Ratbeetle]

I would recommend you open up a history book. We used to run our game laws with everyone just doing whatever they wanted and we damn near wiped every big game animal off the face of the continent. It took sportsman coming together to petition the government to add game regulations that turned the tide which is what now allows us to have such rich hunting opportunities.

If you think the market hunting of days past will come roaring back if some game regulations were rolled back, I don't know what to tell you. This isn't the 1800s anymore.

 

[bsnedeker]

If you think the market hunting of days past will come roaring back if some game regulations were rolled back, I don't know what to tell you. This isn't the 1800s anymore.

No, but apparently you'd like it to be!

I'm done with this thread, you want to advocate for poaching on a public forum go for it. I think poachers are scum and poachers that teach their children to be poachers are even lower.

 

[Ratbeetle]

OMG the sky is falling because someone disagrees with me!!! If Robby or any of the moderators think I'm advocating for poaching I won't be offended in the least if they delete my posts and slap my hand. But I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people reading this thread can see through the histrionics and understand that's not the case at all.

Not once have I even said that I would allow my kid to punch my tag, only that I don't find it morally objectionable in the least. In fact, just to be clear, I would not allow my kid to punch my tag...but it has nothing to do with it being "wrong."

My family is my team. I have no problem sharing anything that is mine with my team. In this particular instance, we're not talking about a parent and a kid in two separate basins, sharing a tag and thereby doubling their odds. We're talking about hunting together, dad has the animal lined up in his sights and decides to hand the rifle to junior.

Nothing...not one single thing about that scenario adversely impacts anyone. It doesn't change the success rates that the tag allocations were based on and it's not taking a tag away from anyone. It does not pick anyone's pocket nor break their leg, therefore I would have no moral issue handing that rifle over. That said, I'm not subjecting my child to the potential legal ramifications nor denying them the ability to share their success with anyone due to fear of the repercussions.

I don't believe for one second that my child would ultimately become some super criminal because I teach them that regulations made by man can be fallible and that they should look at things objectively and use some common sense when dealing with the law. God forbid, maybe I'll let my daughter have a beer when she's 20...THE HORROR!

5 seconds of research will show anyone that there are so many laws on the books in this country that no one really even know how many there are anymore. And the vast majority are made by people with zero accountability to the people. That is not right.

Some of you think I'm a scumbag and that's cool, I won't lose sleep over it. We don't have to share a camp on the mountain. But I reckon if that was to happen, you'd come away with a far different opinion of me.

 

[BuzzH]

So, other than being socially unacceptable and against the law...you didn't provide a single legitimate reason as to why a child should not be able to punch a parent's tag.

I'm not sayin there aren't legitimate reasons but simply saying it's the law doesn't fly with me.

The simple fact that this is legal in some states and not in others demonstrates the arbitrary nature of most laws and illustrates my point perfectly.

If you want a perfect, legitimate reason for the need for laws and regulations...go take a good look in the mirror.

The way it works, the citizens and participants in the sport get to decide what rules, laws, and regulations they want. If that means not letting your snot nosed kid shoot a deer before they're old enough on daddy ego's tag, then that's the way it goes.

It wont stop knuckleheads and inflated ego dads from doing it, but if you get caught, you'll pay a little extra for that move.

If we're going to go down the road of allowing kids to fill tags for dear old dad, then why shouldn't Dads be able to fill their kids tags? Why shouldn't I be allowed to shoot 50 elk a year in Wyoming if I can scrounge up enough people to buy tags for? If we start down the road of picking and choosing the regulations we follow and those we don't...wildlife is going to take it in the shorts. Just the way it is, and always has been.

There has to be rules and regulations in place, obviously.

The thing that doesn't make sense with this ridiculous law breaking talk, is that there are all sorts of options to allow kids of any age to hunt. Texas doesn't have a minimum age, take your kid there, legally. Small game opportunities allow much younger kids to participate. Predator hunting...all sorts of things.

Keep it legal...period.

 

[lif]

Just for the record, I called around to about a dozen of my closest friends that hunt. I know 6 grown men , ages 42-77, who shot there first deer using there dads or grampas tag. All are good men, all have worked there whole life, none are poachers, 2 of them are very religious. Couple of the older guys I talked to said it was very common in the 50s and 60s for this to happen. All 6 spoke With great joy about their stories of filling dads tag. All were very grateful that there dad took them out in the woods and gave them that opportunity and time to set them up for a lifetime of hunting. Just saying that these types of things have much more to do with how you raise your children individually, rather than telling your kid to just follow the details of the laws or you’ll end up in jail or hell. NEWS FLASH: The government isn’t always correct in their laws!!

 

[BuzzH]

Just for the record, I called around to about a dozen of my closest friends that hunt. I know 6 grown men , ages 42-77, who shot there first deer using there dads or grampas tag. All are good men, all have worked there whole life, none are poachers, 2 of them are very religious. Couple of the older guys I talked to said it was very common in the 50s and 60s for this to happen. All 6 spoke With great joy about their stories of filling dads tag. All were very grateful that there dad took them out in the woods and gave them that opportunity and time to set them up for a lifetime of hunting. Just saying that these types of things have much more to do with how you raise your children individually, rather than telling your kid to just follow the details of the laws or you’ll end up in jail or hell. NEWS FLASH: The government isn’t always correct in their laws!!

News flash it isn't the 1960's anymore...

Youth have tons of opportunity and if you don't like the REGULATIONS, then change them. Changing REGULATIONS, is not even close to as difficult as changing a statute...

Lots of states, in fact most states, have lowered the age requirements for hunting, as an example.

There's no reason to allow a kid to shoot a deer for someone else illegally...no reason.

 

[mwebs]

Man I am glad I didn't grow up in some of your households. Being ethical, following the law and respecting the game was instilled in me from day one. I have friends and know people that had different hunting mentor ship growing up, they do some ethically questionable things and I do not hunt with them. Not following the laws or in some of the opinions expressed here, taking liberties with the law gives us all a bad name and feeds into the anti-hunter narrative. I have convinced many hippy types out here of the value of hunting based on my ideals of the sport, idiots breaking the law does us no good.

There are so many legal avenues to introduce hunting to your kids, utilize legal routes and leave the illegal and grey areas out of the equation while they are forming ethical opinions. They will be better for it in the long run and we will have a better population of hunters representing us in the future.

Do you guys who say you don't agree with the law or the opinion of the government on this subject sympathize with the guy who doesn't see an issue with marijuana so he sells it illegally? I guess all laws that we don't agree with should be objective and we don't have to follow?

 

[Laramie]

This thread highlights a major problem we have with our society today. A lot of parents are teaching their kids a lack of respect. It's been going on for a long time but each of us that is a parent has the opportunity to right the ship if we so choose to.

 

[Ratbeetle]

This thread highlights a major problem we have with our society today. A lot of parents are teaching their kids a lack of respect. It's been going on for a long time but each of us that is a parent has the opportunity to right the ship if we so choose to.

Respect for what exactly?

 

[zacattack]

Like others have said If legal maybe, if not no way.

 

[WCB]

Plain and simple...there is no grey area. If it is legal it is the parent and kids decision. If it is not legal than it is Illegal and should not be done. That decision was already made for them.

Don't understand what is so hard to understand. Ethics/morals are a complete waste of time to discuss with most people. Plus they are individual to a person...Yeah I get it society as a whole has some ethic standards but not everyone will 100% agree with those.

 

[BuzzH]

Respect for what exactly?

Each other as hunters and the wildlife some only seem to pretend to care about.

The future of the sport and how we're viewed by the majority of people that don't hunt and will decide the fate of hunting for all of us.

For starters....

 

[lif]

Each other as hunters and the wildlife some only seem to pretend to care about.

The future of the sport and how we're viewed by the majority of people that don't hunt and will decide the fate of hunting for all of us.

For starters....

I can see your point. Could you imagine what would happen If the rest of society found out that an 11 year old kid got to shoot the animal that his dad had a tag for already? It would probably destroy the hunting world, and make all hunters look like a bunch of dads trying to get our kids involved in hunting. Not a good luck.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Each other as hunters and the wildlife some only seem to pretend to care about.

The future of the sport and how we're viewed by the majority of people that don't hunt and will decide the fate of hunting for all of us.

For starters....

More histrionics. Again, the dad in this scenario has not taken opportunity away from anyone and the animal in the crosshairs couldn't care less who pulled the trigger.

And I'm sure all of the country's anti-hunters will know exactly what transpired on the mountain and will begin protests immediately.

Some of you guys are drama queens.

 

[Laramie]

And some of you are OK with poaching. You really think a kid isn't going to resent looking at that trophy later in life knowing it was harvested illegally? Pretty crappy thing for a parent to put their kid through imo.

 

[BuzzH]

More histrionics. Again, the dad in this scenario has not taken opportunity away from anyone and the animal in the crosshairs couldn't care less who pulled the trigger.

And I'm sure all of the country's anti-hunters will know exactly what transpired on the mountain and will begin protests immediately.

Some of you guys are drama queens.

You're a fool, antihunters wont decide the fate of hunting.

Its how the 80% of the folks that don't have an opinion either way that will, they have the majority vote, not anti's and not hunters. How we conduct ourselves in the field is a reflection of hunting. I would guess non-hunters read this board and others. The slack jawed, mouth breathers that find following very, very basic hunting regulations bothersome, are a reflection on all hunters. I don't tolerate it, never have, never will.

If I were a non-hunter, not an antihunter, I would find it pretty strange that someone who claims to care so much about the Sport, and so much about wildlife, would find breaking the law/regulations as no big deal. Probably enough to sway my opinion. Even as a hunter, I find it impossible to defend a good portion of the "hunters" out there each year. Guys like you, and the actions you're promoting, really give me pause....and frankly before I'm lumped in with people who disregard hunting regulations, I'd quit hunting, join PETA and take up golf.

No excuses and no room for illegal behavior, even less for parents who would tell their kids to lie and break the law.

 

[Ratbeetle]

And some of you are OK with poaching. You really think a kid isn't going to resent looking at that trophy later in life knowing it was harvested illegally? Pretty crappy thing for a parent to put their kid through imo.

You should read more and post less. You might see that topic addressed and stated as a reason why many dads wouldn't let their kids pull the trigger.

 

[2rocky]

I always like applying the "What if the opposite were to happen?" when I look at the ethics of an issue. Kind of a Good for the goose, good for the gander analysis.

We would sure cry foul if the father shot a buck or bull on a youth tag.

Besides, what kid would actually not mention that they pulled the trigger on a nice critter? It is asking for trouble in a social media filled world. There are no secrets, for long.

But mark my words. In our lifetimes, and for some of us it has already happened, we will be legislated into being outlaws. At some point what has been a legal and accepted way of doing things WILL become an underground activity for some. It is up to us to decide what our morals dictate and whether we are willing to accept consequences of breaking laws in defense of our beliefs. Like moonshiners, illegal herbal agriculture, survivalist hunters, and deer feeding old ladies.