Am I Throwing Away $150 Per Year On Wyoming Sheep?

[Trial153]

Even more reason to stop putting in? $220 for a 1 in 900 odds is pretty terrible even for sheep.

Preety dismal for sure

 

[Wyomuleskinner]

I’ve been putting in for a unit that issues random tags but has enough sheep outside the wilderness. I won’t say the unit number but a smart person could figure out the unit.

I volunteer to go as a resident if you draw a tag but I’m a terrible guide.

 

[Jimss]

$200 x 10 years is $2,000......x 30 years is $6,000. I can think of a lot of things I can do with $2,000 every 10 years and that's just the price for applying for a tag! Wyo has you by the nuts! They could charge $300/year in a couple years and then you are out even more cash. In the long run there will likely be fewer and fewer guys applying for sheep tags but your odds likely won't improve much unless they suddenly decide to change the draw system.

 

[dreamingWest]

According to a note I left myself last year...
Assuming status quo for tag allocation and applicants:
As of 2018 I would draw a tag in 130 years.
As of 2019 I would draw a tag in 109 years.

It looks as though there were some applicants ahead of me that dropped-out in 2019. My numbers could be wrong, I'll check them again when I have more time.

The only way it makes sense for me to continue to buy the $150 preference point is if I plan to move to Wyoming. At this point, I can't rule that out, so I continue to donate $150 to the state.

 

[Doc Holliday]

According to a note I left myself last year...
Assuming status quo for tag allocation and applicants:
As of 2018 I would draw a tag in 130 years.
As of 2019 I would draw a tag in 109 years.

It looks as though there were some applicants ahead of me that dropped-out in 2019. My numbers could be wrong, I'll check them again when I have more time.

The only way it makes sense for me to continue to buy the $150 preference point is if I plan to move to Wyoming. At this point, I can't rule that out, so I continue to donate $150 to the state.

If you extrapolate that same progress of 21 years per year, you would be at the front of the line 5 years from now

2020 - 88 years
2021 - 67 years
2022 - 46 years
2023 - 25 years
2024 - 4 years
2025 - Front of the line

I think people make alot of assumptions when they write off the point programs, like:

-Everyone currently buying points will continue to buy points, and will live forever.
-Everyone who is interested in sheep hunting today will be interested in sheep hunting for the rest of their lives.
-Everyone who has money for points and applications now will continue to, indefinitely.

Whether by lack of health, lack of interest, or lack of money........life and life decisions (kids, divorces, moves, etc.) take many people off of the board. And the way states keep ratcheting up the costs to apply/holding thousands of dollars for months on end, it is weeding out alot of hunters who in the past participated and might be walking away from points.

 

[cbeard64]

At 9 points as a NR it’s pretty hard to justify the $$. OTOH, there are not many Rocky Mountain Bighorn opportunities period - raffles, paid hunts, draw or otherwise.

My thinking is that for those who just want to sheep hunt WY is not a good investment unless you have 18+ points as a NR.

But if (like me) you need a Rocky to complete your slam, it’s one of the few chances available to hunt them. So I’m in for the chance. I’ve drawn tags with longer odds before.....

 

[dreamingWest]

But if (like me) you need a Rocky to complete your slam, it’s one of the few chances available to hunt them. So I’m in for the chance. I’ve drawn tags with longer odds before.....

Awesome, good luck on completing your slam! I chatted with two Grand Slam guys coming home from Sheep Show this year. They both started the same place I am today, mid-30s, no sheep. I'm just hoping to get one. And maybe that will lead to dreaming about a second...

 

[BeaverHunter]

According to a note I left myself last year...
Assuming status quo for tag allocation and applicants:
As of 2018 I would draw a tag in 130 years.
As of 2019 I would draw a tag in 109 years.

It looks as though there were some applicants ahead of me that dropped-out in 2019. My numbers could be wrong, I'll check them again when I have more time.

The only way it makes sense for me to continue to buy the $150 preference point is if I plan to move to Wyoming. At this point, I can't rule that out, so I continue to donate $150 to the state.

I didn't think about if I ever move to Wyoming. Do your preference points transfer?

 

[dreamingWest]

I think so...

non-resident-to-resident-points

 

[BuzzH]

I jumped into the sheep drawings in 1998-99 applying outside my home state of Montana. I have 39 years applying for sheep, moose and goat in Montana, I've drawn goat and moose but still no sheep. I continue to apply even though I know my odds are dismal for all 3 as a NR, but someone draws every year.

My recommendation would be to stay the course. I mean yeah, guys like jims will tell you its a "waste" of $6000 to continue to apply. I agree to an extent. But, if you want to hunt sheep the options are pretty darn thin. You aren't going to even sniff a sheep hunt for $6000 buying one, wont happen. In particular if you're looking at this long term. Sheep hunts are getting nothing but more and more expensive as time goes on and the questions you have to ask are:

1. Am I willing to spend 20-70K plus for a sheep hunt to just buy one.
2. Is it that important that I am willing to spend $150 a year and potentially not draw.
3. Are sheep permits going to increase in number or decrease in number.
4. Will I be in good enough physical shape to hunt real late in life.
5. Will I eve be in a financial situation to just pay for hunts.
6. Is it worth sacrificing drawing other things to afford to apply for sheep.

Probably a bunch of others.

My thought was, that at the time for me, it wasn't too difficult or expensive to just buy a dall sheep. I shot a record book ram in 1995 and paid $4750 for the hunt.

I also knew at that time I wasn't going to just pay for deserts or bighorns, they were already out of my reach. So, I just started applying everywhere a tag was available to a NR...odds or not, I wanted to, and still do, want to hunt as many sheep tags as I can draw.

IMO, I think with the amount of money being thrown at sheep, and the work being done by WSF, RBHS, etc. that the future may be pretty bright for bighorns. I think as we learn more, get better control of the problems with disease, etc. there will be MORE tags available in the future.

I know this, if I were a guy 30 years old, I would look at this as a glass half full situation and that it will improve. I would not look at my $150 a year application fee the same as "burning it for heat being a better choice" but rather an investment into the future of wildlife, hunting, and doing more and better things for wild sheep.

I think things may get better, more tags may become available, and I also think many people are just not willing to stay the course. Lots of Insta-famous folks apply for a while then burn out and quit when they realize its not a short term commitment.

Your choice, but the only way this average guy was ever going to get to hunt deserts and rocky mountain bighorns was staying the course and drawing.

I've drawn both in the last 7 years, desert as a NR in Arizona and Rocky in Wyoming as a Resident.

If you ask me was it worth the money, time and effort to apply? Yeah, I think it was...

YMMV.

 

[BeaverHunter]

I jumped into the sheep drawings in 1998-99 applying outside my home state of Montana. I have 39 years applying for sheep, moose and goat in Montana, I've drawn goat and moose but still no sheep. I continue to apply even though I know my odds are dismal for all 3 as a NR, but someone draws every year.

My recommendation would be to stay the course. I mean yeah, guys like jims will tell you its a "waste" of $6000 to continue to apply. I agree to an extent. But, if you want to hunt sheep the options are pretty darn thin. You aren't going to even sniff a sheep hunt for $6000 buying one, wont happen. In particular if you're looking at this long term. Sheep hunts are getting nothing but more and more expensive as time goes on and the questions you have to ask are:

1. Am I willing to spend 20-70K plus for a sheep hunt to just buy one.
2. Is it that important that I am willing to spend $150 a year and potentially not draw.
3. Are sheep permits going to increase in number or decrease in number.
4. Will I be in good enough physical shape to hunt real late in life.
5. Will I eve be in a financial situation to just pay for hunts.
6. Is it worth sacrificing drawing other things to afford to apply for sheep.

Probably a bunch of others.

My thought was, that at the time for me, it wasn't too difficult or expensive to just buy a dall sheep. I shot a record book ram in 1995 and paid $4750 for the hunt.

I also knew at that time I wasn't going to just pay for deserts or bighorns, they were already out of my reach. So, I just started applying everywhere a tag was available to a NR...odds or not, I wanted to, and still do, want to hunt as many sheep tags as I can draw.

IMO, I think with the amount of money being thrown at sheep, and the work being done by WSF, RBHS, etc. that the future may be pretty bright for bighorns. I think as we learn more, get better control of the problems with disease, etc. there will be MORE tags available in the future.

I know this, if I were a guy 30 years old, I would look at this as a glass half full situation and that it will improve. I would not look at my $150 a year application fee the same as "burning it for heat being a better choice" but rather an investment into the future of wildlife, hunting, and doing more and better things for wild sheep.

I think things may get better, more tags may become available, and I also think many people are just not willing to stay the course. Lots of Insta-famous folks apply for a while then burn out and quit when they realize its not a short term commitment.

Your choice, but the only way this average guy was ever going to get to hunt deserts and rocky mountain bighorns was staying the course and drawing.

I've drawn both in the last 7 years, desert as a NR in Arizona and Rocky in Wyoming as a Resident.

If you ask me was it worth the money, time and effort to apply? Yeah, I think it was...

YMMV.

Yea the more I've thought about it, throwing in the towel at age 35 with 9-10 points seems like a short sided decision. I called and confirmed that points do transfer if (or more like when) I become a resident and then I will have a much better chance at drawing a tag in the resident pool. Thanks for the thought out response. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford a guided sheep hunt so I'll probably keep going in the unit that I can hunt on my own outside the wilderness or eventually have more units to be able to apply in if I become a resident. Now to hope a bunch of people drop out that are in front of me LOL.

 

[204guy]

I would stay. I have no idea, but how many nr's start applying before they're 25? With some good life choices and luck you can literally outlast the majority of the point holders in front of you. Very long term strategy, but given the current system it's viable.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Selway]

I actually think you might be in pretty good position. Not many guys had the foresight to get in to the game as young as you did. The VAST majority of those point holders are Boomers that are going to taking dirt naps by the time you've got 20-30 points.

I also agree with Buzz's points above that things could break right for sheep, and we may see a population (and tag) increase. Word is starting to get out on the domestic issues, and bighorns are a species that actually do okay in a warmer and dryer climate.

Bet on yourself, and on our country's tradition of conservation.

 

[FLAK]

IMO a waste of money.

 

[Steve O]

I would stay. I have no idea, but how many nr's start applying before they're 25? With some good life choices and luck you can literally outlast the majority of the point holders in front of you. Very long term strategy, but given the current system it's viable.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Of of my few regrets in this life is knowing that there was a preference point system stating in Wyoming and I was too naive and cheap to get in on the ground floor. The original NR points were $6 or $7 from what I can remember. I’m paying for that dearly now and it is VERY clear how important preference points are.

 

[LJ Buck]

Wy is a great place to retire. Move their for a year and your points transfer as well. Not a bad plan.

Same as if you get a resident lifetime license in AZ you always get to be put in the res odds even if you move away. Lots of ways to play the system state to state.

 

[realunlucky]

Utah busted a guy from Arizona that "moved" for a guaranteed resident sheep tag. Interesting turn of events for one of Arizona's better known sheep guides. Dot the i and cross the t

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[npm352]

Yes. You are throwing it away. Save it and go hunt tahr in NZ in a few years, or mid-Asain ibex. You won't catch up and they will keep raising prices. I am 35...I started when it was $7 a point. Got out shortly thereafter as it kept raising like 100x worse than inflation.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes. You are throwing it away. Save it and go hunt tahr in NZ in a few years, or mid-Asain ibex. You won't catch up and they will keep raising prices. I am 35...I started when it was $7 a point. Got out shortly thereafter as it kept raising like 100x worse than inflation.

A tahr in NZ is not a desert sheep, or a dall sheep, or a Rocky Mountain Bighorn either.

I wouldn't trade one of those for every tahr in New Zealand.

About like saying, don't waste your money hunting elk, go shoot feral hogs in Texas...

Not that there's anything wrong with hunting tahr or feral hogs, its just not the same as hunting elk and sheep.

 

[horniac]

IMO If you have the disposable income to continue to apply for a random sheep tag then by all means continue to do so. It is essentially a $150 lotto ticket for a sheep tag. As BuzzH correctly pointed out, there are not many options for obtaining a bighorn tag. If there was a way to get in the random draw without buying a $150 preference point, then I would NOT purchase the preference point. Unfortunately, that is not possible at this time In WY given the the current draw system.

As others have pointed out, unless you are able to live to 100, you will likely never be included in the preference point pool, given your current point level. There have been several proposals in the past to cut the NR tag allocation in half, and if that were to happen then you would obviously need to live to 200 to have a chance at a preference point tag given that scenario.

I think more and more NR’s have come to the realization that the $150 preference point fee for moose and sheep is only worth it to the highest point holders who are close to drawing a preference point tag. NR preference point revenue for sheep fell slightly last year and more significantly for moose (close to $150,000) based on my analysis. Most of the attrition has been at the very lowest point levels but there are a few dropping at every point level. I predict this trend will continue and accelerate in the coming years which will result in either the preference point fees being raised further, or the draw system being changed in such a manner to retain those who would otherwise drop out.

I was fortunate to get in the game fairly early and draw NR preference point tags for both moose and sheep in mid-tier units by 2016 and had great hunts for both so I don’t have anything to gain one way or another on whatever you decide to do. In the interest of full disclosure though, my 26 year old son currently has 15 NR points for each.

As the point fees continue to increase, it has been getting harder and harder though to justify spending the money as even at his point level he still has over a 50 year wait which would put him close to 80 before it would be his turn in line to draw a tag. That’s assuming nothing changes, but we all know in nearly every state the draw systems have been tweaked over the years for one reason or another usually to the detriment of the higher point holders. Couple that with the fact that the prices for NR tags, licenses, applications, outfitters, etc. continue to rise as NR quotas in almost every state continue to slide for one reason or another only making it harder and harder to stay the course. Then the longer you are in the system, the harder it becomes to bail out of the system as it is becomes increasingly difficult to forfeit all the money expended and the years waiting in line for the chance at a tag even when objective analysis dictates the obvious course of action to take.

If you are planning to move to WY in the future, that could warrant further consideration...

Horniac