Another truck thread....Ford guys

[AKBC]

The costs of new and used trucks has me thinking I will rebuild my 1996 F350 that has a 7.3L diesel. Crazy times when a pickup costs this much.

 

[swavescatter]

On the Tremor package, the axles are indeed the same between the 250/350. That's the same even in the other packages. Reason the payload difference shows is because on the 250 version of the SuperDuty, the upper overload spring is missing. Whether Tremor package or any other, the spring-pack is different between 250/350. Thus, the payload difference.

No there's an actual difference in axles as well. F250's can be ordered with the high capacity tow package which gives them the F350 axle (Tremors get this automatically.)

 

[tdhanses]

The F250 with the 6.2 and 6spd is a bulletproof combo it just gets horrible fuel mileage. My 2019 avg was 11.9mpg. Traded it for a duramax 1/2ton and loving the mileage and car like ride, so much more comfortable. If I want to off road I’ll take my utv and not my $60k vehicle.

 

[dtripp0825]

F-250/350’s in the PNW have went up about 10k in the last 4 months! Used ones with nothing special are going for 80k.


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[widnert]

No there's an actual difference in axles as well. F250's can be ordered with the high capacity tow package which gives them the F350 axle (Tremors get this automatically.)

After digging into this a little more, it appears you may be correct. Same Dana M275 axle and reference to the same spring 'looking' pack (5 leaves). Just wondering about the payload difference stated on the door sticker then, between the two. Wonder if Ford is just playing games to allow those in states with huge registration fee differences between 3/4 and 1-ton trucks to get the real payload of a 1-ton but, drive a truck badged as a 3/4 ton? Or, maybe the leaves are a different steel quality? Doubt that would be the case though - too much unique engineering required for something like this.

FYI - there seems to be a recall on these M275 axles manufactured between specific dates. It looks like Dana changed the tube-wall thickness and, the axles are susceptible to crushing where the leaf spring seat attaches. Causing leaks and potential catastrophic failure if driving at-speed. Nothing like that has happened yet but, 20-some thousand trucks impacted in recall. For those of you that own 2020-ish trucks, check these on yours or, call your dealer to get the specifics. Recall was submitted in July to NTSB.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

After digging into this a little more, it appears you may be correct. Same Dana M275 axle and reference to the same spring 'looking' pack (5 leaves). Just wondering about the payload difference stated on the door sticker then, between the two. Wonder if Ford is just playing games to allow those in states with huge registration fee differences between 3/4 and 1-ton trucks to get the real payload of a 1-ton but, drive a truck badged as a 3/4 ton? Or, maybe the leaves are a different steel quality? Doubt that would be the case though - too much unique engineering required for something like this.

FYI - there seems to be a recall on these M275 axles manufactured between specific dates. It looks like Dana changed the tube-wall thickness and, the axles are susceptible to crushing where the leaf spring seat attaches. Causing leaks and potential catastrophic failure if driving at-speed. Nothing like that has happened yet but, 20-some thousand trucks impacted in recall. For those of you that own 2020-ish trucks, check these on yours or, call your dealer to get the specifics. Recall was submitted in July to NTSB.

So far the recall is only for 6.7 F350s...probably due to capacity and 1000 ft lbs of torque.

 

[twall13]

I went from a Tundra to a 2019 F-250 XLT with the 6.2 gas motor almost a year ago. In a lot of ways I miss the Tundra, but I needed a bigger truck to pull my large bumper pull toy hauler. It's pretty crazy that nearly a year and over 10K miles later KBB says the truck is worth $6k more than what I paid for it when I picked it up used.

I'm personally of the opinion that if you don't need it for towing, stick with a 1/2 ton truck. They have a better turning radius, ride smoother, weigh less and get better fuel economy. I typically get around 12 MPG in the F-250, but when I'm pulling my toyhauler it drops down to the 6-7 MPG range. It's a big V8 engine in a heavy truck, I'm not expecting great fuel economy, especially when towing a 11,000 lbs. load that is a major wind drag. Just a trade off for needing the towing capacity. Don't get me started down the road of diesel vs. gas on the fuel economy debate, I'm happy with the gas truck and accept it for what it is.

To the OP's question, a few features I like more than I thought I would are the rear underseat storage, access keypad, and remote start. I like the extra tiedown points provided by the box link system as well so I'd probably get that again if I was ordering from the factory, which I may do at some point in the future. I threw on an aftermarket Deezee Tailgate assist as well as my Ford didn't come with that feature and I was used to it with the Tundra. That's a pretty cheap add on that was well worth it to me.

It's a crazy market right now. I'm tempted to order a new truck with the 7.3 engine and sell this one and pick up a beater suv for the winter until I can take delivery of the new truck but with my luck something would go wrong if I took that risk and I'd be truckless when I needed it.

 

[2five7]

No there's an actual difference in axles as well. F250's can be ordered with the high capacity tow package which gives them the F350 axle (Tremors get this automatically.)

F250's with the 7.3 and 4.30 gears also get the M275 rear axle, no need for the Tremor package if you don't want it.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Holy crap! 12MPG? Even with a 38 gallon tank that's like a range of 460 miles. I'm getting much further than that with my 23 gallon diesel tank. There's the true cost...not the purchase price. Ouch!!! I get 27mpg hwy and 20 average (including lots of offroad) when traveling to Colorado for elk hunts. At $4. a gallon where I live, I would be spending $160/wk just on gas. No thanks.

 

[twall13]

Holy crap! 12MPG? Even with a 38 gallon tank that's like a range of 460 miles. I'm getting much further than that with my 23 gallon diesel tank. There's the true cost...not the purchase price. Ouch!!! I get 27mpg hwy and 20 average (including lots of offroad) when traveling to Colorado for elk hunts. At $4. a gallon where I live, I would be spending $160/wk just on gas. No thanks.

View attachment 313764

Make that argument all you want but most guys still come out ahead with a gas truck over new model diesels. Cheaper up front cost, cheaper maintenance over time, no DEF, and where I live, Diesel is more expensive than gas so that eats into the fuel economy savings as well. It takes a long time to make up that monetary difference by fuel economy alone, but it sure feels good to not fill up as often and brag about your fuel economy. If you tow heavy several days a week a diesel will make more sense over time but most guys don't need them and would save money overall with a gas truck. Some people like a diesel regardless of costs, etc. and more power to them, drive what you want. I just feel like people have an impression they need a diesel when most don't. Need and want are two different things. Neither reason is wrong for owning a diesel, people should do what they want. All I'm saying is you should think about it. For me, I'll pay the extra monthly gas bill and fill up the tank a bit more often in exchange for all the other savings.

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[amassi]

The costs of new and used trucks has me thinking I will rebuild my 1996 F350 that has a 7.3L diesel. Crazy times when a pickup costs this much.

You should see what "classic" 90s Era ford trucks are going for

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[tdhanses]

Make that argument all you want but most guys still come out ahead with a gas truck over new model diesels. Cheaper up front cost, cheaper maintenance over time, no DEF, and where I live, Diesel is more expensive than gas so that eats into the fuel economy savings as well. It takes a long time to make up that monetary difference by fuel economy alone, but it sure feels good to not fill up as often and brag about your fuel economy. If you tow heavy several days a week a diesel will make more sense over time but most guys don't need them and would save money overall with a gas truck. Some people like a diesel regardless of costs, etc. and more power to them, drive what you want. I just feel like people have an impression they need a diesel when most don't. Need and want are two different things. Neither reason is wrong for owning a diesel, people should do what they want. All I'm saying is you should think about it. For me, I'll pay the extra monthly gas bill and fill up the tank a bit more often in exchange for all the other savings.

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That‘s true if your only thinking a 3/4 ton, which most don’t need at all, my 1/2ton gmc is way cheaper to drive then the gas equivalent and it only cost $950 more for the diesel over the 5.3 gas and was around $1500 cheaper then the gas 6.2 which requires premium fuel as well.

Also I’ve spent around $50 in def in 10k miles of which close to 6k were towing, that’s a immaterial cost in my view. Also I have a 50gal aux fuel tank in my bed, can’t do that with gas. Diesel is a hair over reg gas here and way cheaper then premium, currently at Sam’s Club I’m paying $2.88, I can fill my tanks and drive to CO and back without having to pay the higher fuel prices in CO, can’t do that with a gas truck.

Here is my 400 mile avg, not towing, which my computer has been lower then hand calculated every tank so it’s more like 32mpg. Towing into a head wind I get about 15mpg.

The OP should really consider the GMC 1/2ton diesel.

I’ll probably save a few thousand just this year in fuel costs vs if I had gone gas, but keep thinking your saving money going gas but it’s not true anymore.

What funny is I went from a 2019 F250 with the 6.2 gas to a 2021 1/2 ton GMC in feb, my avg mpg with my Ford was 11.9mpg and towing was 8mpg. The 1/2ton diesel does way better going up the mountains then the 6.2 gas did pulling the same camper (8k lbs) but I do miss the weight of the 3/4ton in the wind.

 

[swavescatter]

...well with that logic OP should hold out for the Ford Lightning! Great MPG's I hear...

I love my diesel for the range and pulling power, but it'll never pay for itself in operational costs. Oil changes, fuel filters - all big bucks. Not to mention HD diesel engines are $10k options over gas.

 

[twall13]

That‘s true if your only thinking a 3/4 ton, which most don’t need at all, my 1/2ton gmc is way cheaper to drive then the gas equivalent and it only cost $950 more for the diesel over the 5.3 gas and was around $1500 cheaper then the gas 6.2 which requires premium fuel as well.

Also I’ve spent around $50 in def in 10k miles of which close to 6k were towing, that’s a immaterial cost in my view. Also I have a 50gal aux fuel tank in my bed, can’t do that with gas. Diesel is a hair over reg gas here and way cheaper then premium, currently at Sam’s Club I’m paying $2.88, I can fill my tanks and drive to CO and back without having to pay the higher fuel prices in CO, can’t do that with a gas truck.

Here is my 400 mile avg, not towing, which my computer has been lower then hand calculated every tank so it’s more like 32mpg. Towing into a head wind I get about 15mpg.

The OP should really consider the GMC 1/2ton diesel.

I’ll probably save a few thousand just this year in fuel costs vs if I had gone gas, but keep thinking your saving money going gas but it’s not true anymore.

What funny is I went from a 2019 F250 with the 6.2 gas to a 2021 1/2 ton GMC in feb, my avg mpg with my Ford was 11.9mpg and towing was 8mpg. The 1/2ton diesel does way better going up the mountains then the 6.2 gas did pulling the same camper (8k lbs) but I do miss the weight of the 3/4ton in the wind.

View attachment 313779

I was talking 3/4 ton trucks as that's what the OP referenced but you do bring up some valid points with 1/2 tons. See my earlier post and I actually agree with you that most don't need a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck these days. Things are always changing and it's good to keep evaluating. For my situation I'm still convinced a gas 3/4 ton is the best value for my use. I'd love to still drive a 1/2 ton truck but for the 6-7 trips a year I pull my toy hauler I need the stiffer chasis and longer wheelbase of a 3/4 ton. Those are the only times I'd prefer a 3/4 ton diesel, but I certainly don't need it.

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[Cowbell]

Make that argument all you want but most guys still come out ahead with a gas truck over new model diesels. Cheaper up front cost, cheaper maintenance over time, no DEF, and where I live, Diesel is more expensive than gas so that eats into the fuel economy savings as well. It takes a long time to make up that monetary difference by fuel economy alone, but it sure feels good to not fill up as often and brag about your fuel economy. If you tow heavy several days a week a diesel will make more sense over time but most guys don't need them and would save money overall with a gas truck. Some people like a diesel regardless of costs, etc. and more power to them, drive what you want. I just feel like people have an impression they need a diesel when most don't. Need and want are two different things. Neither reason is wrong for owning a diesel, people should do what they want. All I'm saying is you should think about it. For me, I'll pay the extra monthly gas bill and fill up the tank a bit more often in exchange for all the other savings.

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Nothing is further from the truth. I own multiple trucks, trade in trucks every year for both personal and business and diesels are much cheaper to own per mile driven. It's not even close. The fact they hold their resale value, better fuel mileage and (here's the shocker) cheaper to maintain. We change oils at 5k ($65) on diesels vs 3k on the gas.

 

[Fatcamp]

I have a 2017 XL with the 6.2 and six speed. Whoever paid for it new did some upgrades so it's better than average. Locking rear and all the passing stuff in the rear taillights. We pull a camper and a boat, couldn't be happier except for the height. Dang thing is tall. Rides great with a load and 15mpg(empty) with a huge tank means we can go a ways. Make it to our camping spot two hours away and back without stopping for gas when loaded.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Nothing is further from the truth. I own multiple trucks, trade in trucks every year for both personal and business and diesels are much cheaper to own per mile driven. It's not even close. The fact they hold their resale value, better fuel mileage and (here's the shocker) cheaper to maintain. We change oils at 5k ($65) on diesels vs 3k on the gas.

Wow...a post of truth. One of my companies has several delivery vehicles...cars, vans and trucks. Some diesel, others gas. The gassers are far more expensive per mile. My eco-diesel truck gives me much more range in the backcountry where there are no gas stations close.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

The OP should really consider the GMC 1/2ton diesel.

If that's what the OP wants to do that he better order now. He may have it by next hunting season.

GM to shut truck assembly plants again, cites global chip shortage

General Motors on Tuesday said its three North American full-size pickup truck assembly plants would be shut down next week due to the global chip shortage.

www.cnbc.com

 

[long hunter]

Yes my hunting partner is waiting on a new 2500 4x4 dodge has no ideal when it will arrive it was orderd 3 months ago has a pin # on the truck said it will maybe hit the production line bye the 9th of this month maybe.

 

[twall13]

Nothing is further from the truth. I own multiple trucks, trade in trucks every year for both personal and business and diesels are much cheaper to own per mile driven. It's not even close. The fact they hold their resale value, better fuel mileage and (here's the shocker) cheaper to maintain. We change oils at 5k ($65) on diesels vs 3k on the gas.

You are correct, diesels are cheaper to own per mile driven. I'm not arguing that point at all, my point was that how much you drive and how often/heavy you are towing dictate how long it will take to pay back that initial extra $10k investment. I didn't do a good job of articulating that, and I'll probably screw it up again here, but I'll make another attempt at it. The extra stuff I mentioned (DEF fluid, Oil changes, etc.) takes away from the fuel economy savings making the payback period even longer.

Let's take one example on fuel economy alone. Obviously there are a lot of factors that change based on where you live, how you drive, etc. but to simplify it I'm just running it a few quick ways as an example. Do your own math for your situation and things may shake out differently. Again, I'm not referring to 1/2 ton trucks here, to me that's a different deal and if you can get by with a 1/2 ton, that's the route I'd go.
Current National Avg. Gas Price: $3.19/Gal
Current National Avg. Diesel Price: $3.29/Gal
Let's take my average 12 mpg gas truck and a 20 mpg diesel (plug in your own number if I'm off here)
If I drive 5,000 miles per year it costs $1,329/year in gas and $822/year in diesel
10,000 miles it's $2,658 vs. $1645
30,000 miles it's $7,975 vs. $4,935
The gap between the two obviously grows if you do more heavy towing, etc.

I fit into the 10,000 miles a year category so it would take me nearly 10 years to get my money back from spending an extra 10K up front on the diesel, and that's before you consider the more expensive oil changes (every 5K for me diesel or gas), DEF fluid, etc. Sure, it may not be a ton extra, but it does effect the payback period.
This also doesn't take into account the time value of money. If I take that $10k and invest it elsewhere I'm way better off earning a return on my money over that time period, and if you have a loan, you're paying interest on that $10k making the payback period even longer.

Sure, the resale value can come into play in certain situations but for me, vehicles are depreciating assets so I consider them an expense, not an investment and the resale value is a very secondary consideration. Your situation may be different swapping vehicles out every year and that may sway your decision, for me personally it doesn't.

Again, my point is to do the math for yourself and see how it shakes out.
As another point, my father in law owns a diesel F-350 that gets less than 5,000 miles a year put on it. He uses it to pull his fifth wheel trailer camping and that's about it. From my scenario above, he'll likely never get his money back vs. if he'd bought a gas truck. That doesn't mean he should have bought the gas truck, he likes how the diesel tows so for him it's worth the extra money. Do what you want, just don't assume it's right for everyone because it's right for you in your situation.