Any Western Elk Guides Out There

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I guide part time now, used to be full time with a couple outfits doing backcountry horse hunts.

I miss it every day, but was ready to be done when I quit. Be prepared for a ton of work for no pay, often times not a lot of fun, it can be a real grind. Some people thrive on it, some crumple. I would probably still be doing it, if I didn’t want kids, it just is tough to spend that much time in the backcountry with no communication, and with kids. I now get my fix doing a few weeks a year, plus all my personal hunting.

If you bust your ass, and keep pushing through the grind, you should be okay. Obviously you need to know how to hunt, and the hardest part for me, was learning to deal with many personality types. You will have weeks with hunters that you want to just kill them, and you have to put on that fake face. You’ll have other guys, that you know every morning when your saddling horses at 3 am that your wasting time, because you will never be able to get them an animal with their physical or mental limitations. All part of the game.

Good luck- again, if your wanting to make a good living, probably not the way to go. If you get some experience, and can do it part time for some better outfitters, it can be good side money. I broke down my hourly pay with the first outfitter I was with, and it was running about $2.50/hour. That was less than 10 years ago.

I’m looking to honestly just do it seasonally for a few years until we can move out west again. Even guide some bear hunts and elk lottery hunts here where I’m at in PA maybe. Supplement those experiences with a trading post like shop for a bit here. I have a couple solid years to establish what I truly want to do, while I have that available I’m going to take it.

I am really trying to replace the field grind time in the Army but more along the realms of what I’m passionate about. Sounds like what I’m looking for.

I get a decent VA check that pays some bills, pretty much it boils down to I can do this seasonly.

 

[Salmonchaser]

I guided elk and deer for a few years, gave it up because it ruined (nearly) elk hunting for me. I loved guiding upland hunts, 8 years worth, lots of unpaid time taking care of dogs but really enjoyed, mostly, the adventure.
Guiding fishing in Alaska has been fun, even though it’s not a fish every cast.
Managing people and their expectations is the toughest part. Most rewarding part is teaching people how to fish for the different species, have them full fill the dream of a lifetime, that’s good stuff.
Good luck, looking forward to your report

 

[Indian Summer]

One thing I’ll tell you about guiding is you better have good communication skills and great people skills. Guiding is only half the battle. You’ll need to be a motivational speaker, a comedian, a psychologist, marriage counselor (yes in that mountain they will tell and ask you everything), a first aid responder, a salesman etc.

One rule of thumb: Never EVER speak before you think. Ask yourself will what I’m about to say possibly come back to haunt me in any way? For example….. you might want to motivate a wore out elk dreamer by saying ok man we’re going to hit my best honey hole today let’s do this! Seems harmless enough right? Wrong! What happens when you get there and it’s dead quiet and your wore out client who barely made it there looks at you and says well if this was your best spot I guess things aren’t looking too good so now what? What do you say then? “Um I guess we could check my 2nd best spot”? Instead don’t hype things up too much. Looking back it would have been better to say I have several killer spots to check. If they aren’t camped out out one we’ll hit the others until we catch up to them. Be modest. Be humble. Being arrogant or bragging will not help.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I guided elk and deer for a few years, gave it up because it ruined (nearly) elk hunting for me. I loved guiding upland hunts, 8 years worth, lots of unpaid time taking care of dogs but really enjoyed, mostly, the adventure.
Guiding fishing in Alaska has been fun, even though it’s not a fish every cast.
Managing people and their expectations is the toughest part. Most rewarding part is teaching people how to fish for the different species, have them full fill the dream of a lifetime, that’s good stuff.
Good luck, looking forward to your report

What about it ruined elk hunting for you?

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

One thing I’ll tell you about guiding is you better have good communication skills and great people skills. Guiding is only half the battle. You’ll need to be a motivational speaker, a comedian, a psychologist, marriage counselor (yes in that mountain they will tell and ask you everything), a first aid responder, a salesman etc.

One rule of thumb: Never EVER speak before you think. Ask yourself will what I’m about to say possibly come back to haunt me in any way? For example….. you might want to motivate a wore out elk dreamer by saying ok man we’re going to hit my best honey hole today let’s do this! Seems harmless enough right? Wrong! What happens when you get there and it’s dead quiet and your wore out client who barely made it there looks at you and says well if this was your best spot I guess things aren’t looking too good so now what? What do you say then? “Um I guess we could check my 2nd best spot”? Instead don’t hype things up too much. Looking back it would have been better to say I have several killer spots to check. If they aren’t camped out out one we’ll hit the others until we catch up to them. Be modest. Be humble. Being arrogant or bragging will not help.

Absolutely noted.

 

[Salmonchaser]

What about it ruined elk hunting for you?

In a word, sloppiness. Sloppy ( shooting, fitness, ethics, (the 6.5 ) and drunks. I didn’t mind the folks who were honestly doing the best they could do, Happy to help them get it done even if it could have gone better, it was the guys who didn’t really give a shit. Just needed to be able to brag they shot an elk.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

In a word, sloppiness. Sloppy ( shooting, fitness, ethics, (the 6.5 ) and drunks. I didn’t mind the folks who were honestly doing the best they could do, Happy to help them get it done even if it could have gone better, it was the guys who didn’t really give a shit. Just needed to be able to brag they shot an elk.

Yea I imagine that would be upsetting for sure….. but hey if you wana throw poison in your system and think it’ll help you get up a mountain to an elk, have at it lol same concept will apply as did in the Army….. let’s get that out of your system this morning Pri…

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Wife and I found a decent healthcare rate. I got the green light to put my two weeks in as soon as I want, waiting 2 or 3 more paychecks so I can buy a few more items for backcountry stuff. About to get an entire hunting season to get into the rhythm and then guide school in the spring.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Good luck.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Good luck.

Thanks bud

 

[smithjd]

ELM / Shoal Creek Review as promised!

After 32 years in my old line of work, I turned into a “quitter" and decided to go in another direction. After some researching of guide schools, I chose to go with the ELM Guide School. With a long history and focus on western mountain horse-mounted hunting, I felt it provided the best education of skill gaps that I possessed. As in, I had previously seen a horse…

After contacting ELM, Julie and Michael Knott mailed me literature and maintained an open line of communication. They answered all my questions and described the process, which included a home study course and 30 day field study at one of their two associated guide schools. They also reported high job placement rates upon successful completion of the coursework.

The home study course was no joke! The “text book” is exhaustive on many subjects involved with the job, particularly horsemanship. The associated tests were not easy to do well and were very successful in stimulating thought and actually reviewing the material in preparation for the field study. I’d mildly critique the home study course in that it could use updating and re-ordering of SOME of the materials. But, it is my understanding that the Knott’s had promised the founder (Erv) not to make ANY changes. And, much of the material regarding horsemanship and packing remains unchanged as it is done the same way with the same tools as it has always been done. Julie and Michael were available by phone or email for any and all questions.

From July 18 - Aug 14, I (and five others) attended Guide School at Shoal Creek Outfitters in Wyoming under the able instruction of owners Riley and Karissa Millward. Riley called and answered all my questions prior to selecting his school. He didn’t flinch at all when I told him that my horse experience was limited to being able to identify one successfully 95% of the time.

Riley and Karissa held the entire class at one of their rustic and comfortable hunting camps in the Bridger Teton National Forest. Lodging was in a canvas wall tent. Three excellent meals per day were provided. Learning occurred almost constantly with all aspects of camp life and guiding covered. A “day off” was provided from Friday evening to Saturday evening, where one could leave the camp and head to town if they wanted. Our group only left the camp once, at the two week mark. When we had down time, we usually went on short hikes around camp (to find a signal to text home), glassing for wildlife (elk, black bears, coyotes, deer, badgers, even moose spotted!), trout fishing (excellent), shooting bows, and evening card games.

It was instantly clear that Riley literally grew up in this life and spent much of it on the back of a horse. He is a true expert and also a great teacher. His instruction method was explaining, demonstrating, and then watching you do it. The curriculum was crawl, walk, RUN! He was patient and allowed you time to figure things out on your own so that you would really learn and retain it. At every opportunity, we practiced the skills in the actual context of what we would be doing if employed in the industry, e.g. doing real outfitter / wrangler work. Riley and Karissa were truly invested in training us to high standards so that we could be successful. They did NOT phone it in in any way! I do not think I could have picked a better guide school.

By the end of class I had gone from never been on a horse, to catching horses and mules, saddling and packing in the dark, and leading mules through the incredibly beautiful mountains and setting up camp. Riley’s horses and mules know their jobs well (even when I didn’t) and are very well trained and cared for.

Other subjects included guiding / hunting techniques, field dressing and quartering, camp cooking (Karissa is an excellent cook!), first aid / CPR, and much more.

All six of us finished the course, as friends even! Even if you decide that this line of work was not for you, all agreed that the class was an awesome, stand-alone experience. There is no better way to experience the Wyoming mountains than on an authentic pack trip with Shoal Creek Outfitters; the way they have been done for generations.

Julie and Michael Knott paid us a visit at camp and it was a pleasure to meet them in person. Michael was full of great history and Julie helped with job placement. In the end, everyone who wanted employment got it for this fall.

Another take-away is the value of hiring an outfitter. I'm a DIY guy at heart, but if your time and resources are limited, I think it can be very smart to hire (the right) outfitter.

A very big “Thank You” to Riley and Karissa Millward (Shoal Creek Outfitters, Jackson, WY) and Julie and Michael Knott (ELM Guide School).

 

[pacoalcracker]

Maybe join the Pennsylvania Draft Horse & Mule Association, for 20.00/yr then find out if there are any member horse farms local to you. Im betting there are many. Send Donna an e-mail and she will forward it to the other members. [email protected] There you can volunteer and there you will learn much about horses and learning the handling of draft horses will be helpful to you. Mules too, and many outfitters use mules. Draft horse/mule owners are a huge nationwide network and that may also be beneficial.

 

[TAGPUNCHER]

I am going to start just throwing my name and portfolio out there.

If it were me I would look to ALASKA.

 

[Desperatehills]

The best way to make good money as a guide is to not need the money. It is a whole lot easier mentally to do a good job if you are not counting pennies. Good help is hard to find, I am sure you will find work once you move out west. Good Luck

 

[tcpip95]

This thread was a great read. Thank you to all who participated.

@BeastOfTheTrees how did your story end, or is it still a work in progress?

 

[Brooks]

You have to love hunting elk to be an elk guide because after about 50 hunts, up at 4 am, going all day for 5 or 7 days, field dressing kills, packing out with a pack or going back and getting horses and packing out or being unsuccessful then, having a few days off until the next hunt, it becomes a job ! Good luck.

 

[Go West Old Man]

This thread was a great read. Thank you to all who participated.

@BeastOfTheTrees how did your story end, or is it still a work in progress?

I second that. Quite an interesting read. Best of luck to you and to smithjd!

 

[Dead Coyote]

I took the ELM course at the same time Mike Knott ( current owner) did. We were and are still Good Friends. He headed to Montana and I stayed in Minnesota to raise a family. Would of, could of, should of, done it too! But by taking the course it still helps me to this day Hunting anywhere I go. I have been on many trips west and a lot people still ask me why weren't you a guide or outfitter. I say life happens and it goes too fast! Follow your Dreams Fellas, I wish I did!

 

[streetdoctor]

I guided for a few years in the flat tops in Colorado. I guided first rifle in exchange for being allowed use of horses and a small cabin to hunt during archery season. The full time hands/guides they used were either felons or straight out of high school and treated like such. As a guide you basically delivered clients to a pre determined area, cared for the horses, and moved them to a new spot in the afternoon. Majority of their pay was in the form of room and board. I dunno what they actually made but I think it was around $1000/mo. I’m a union firefighter. There’s no way in hell I would give (any) job up to be a hand full time. I really enjoyed it, but I knew it was only for a week a year (and odds and ends summer trips). Up every morning at 3am to catch horses in the cold/mud/snow, and my head would hit a pillow around 11pm. Dealing with rich asshole clients who think you’re they’re slave.

I’m sure not all places are like this but at least some are! Also no cell service, wifi is controlled by the owner and turned on/off. They used ranch hands as guides here so the position seemed interchangeable.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I’ll let you know how it goes… I pulled the plug on my last career earlier this year and signed up for guide school. It starts in a couple weeks and will be done mid-August. I don’t know what to expect (out of me) as I’m not as young as I used to be, but it will be something different and an adventure.

How was guide school? I’m locked in for April.