Anyone applying WY general with 4 or more points?

[harge57]

Why waste your extra points for the general tag? Our group (brother and myself) is right on the likely cutoff this year and would like to add someone to our group to guarantee we draw.

PM me or my cell is 432-770-581four.

 

[BuzzH]

….and right here is why point creep is out of control and why point averaging needs to be changed.

 

[KeatonMullenix]

The system is broken.


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[TheCougar]

….and right here is why point creep is out of control and why point averaging needs to be changed.

Why does this post indicate point creep is out of control and how would you change point averaging? Not arguing that it isn't - I'm just not connecting the dots here.

 

[LongWayAround]

I've got five points now, there's basically nothing I can draw now that I couldn't pull two years ago at three points.

The tags that took five when I started are now 7-8.

I could be pulling my second general but instead I'm still sitting in purgatory.

 

[TheCougar]

I've got five points now, there's basically nothing I can draw now that I couldn't pull two years ago at three points.

The tags that took five when I started are now 7-8.

I could be pulling my second general but instead I'm still sitting in purgatory.

You and me both... I'm sitting in the exact same spot. Too few points to draw a LE tag without waiting for 10 more years, and too many points to not feel like I am wasting them on General tag. In my defense, I haven't cashed in the points yet because I have gotten tags in other states the last 4 Septembers... But still, every year the decision to cash them in becomes harder. How awesome would it be if you could draw a Wilderness General tag with extra points? Everyone knows the second you get into a Wyoming DWA, its the land of milk and honey and 350 bulls...

 

[jmez]

You will never catch up to units with point creep. Just how the system works. If you look at a unit that takes 4 points, by the time you get your 4 the unit will require 7-8.

When I started applying in WY, the unit I was after took 3 points to draw. I used 8 points last year in a different unit. The one I was initially after took 12.

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[BuzzH]

Why does this post indicate point creep is out of control and how would you change point averaging? Not arguing that it isn't - I'm just not connecting the dots here.

Basic math...look at the draw odds.

Wyoming Game and Fish Department - Drawing Odds

wgfd.wyo.gov

This article also explains it pretty well.

Mountain Pursuit

Nonresidents Are Selling Preference Points Under Wyoming's Liberal Party Hunt Draw Regulations

www.mtnpursuit.org

Solution? Real easy, the party goes into the draw with the points of the lowest member of the party.

 

[MallardSX2]

I have 5 and I am considering it. Especially since the point creep is climbing at the rate of me NEVER catching up to a good unit. It is sad.

2 things they need to do in Wyoming.

1- Make you choose if you want to hunt with a bow or a gun....no more of this archery stamp crap. This alone will open a world of opportunity for archers and it will also get some of the point holders out of the point pool.

2- Do away with point averaging completely. There are waaaay too many people applying for their wives to get their tag with their wives having no intention on ever setting foot in the state. Its a broken system for sure. I think a lot of these states are going to make serious changes in the next 5 years. Or at least I hope they will. I have seen many people cutting deals with other hunters to piggyback on their points to continue to hunt a good unit year after year. THere was a read a while back about a guy who had hunted region G 8 or 9 years in a row....now thats pathetic.

 

[cnelk]

"Solution? Real easy, the party goes into the draw with the points of the lowest member of the party. "

This is what Colorado has... still Point Creep

 

[jmez]

Basic math...look at the draw odds.

Wyoming Game and Fish Department - Drawing Odds

wgfd.wyo.gov

This article also explains it pretty well.

Mountain Pursuit

Nonresidents Are Selling Preference Points Under Wyoming's Liberal Party Hunt Draw Regulations

www.mtnpursuit.org

Solution? Real easy, the party goes into the draw with the points of the lowest member of the party.

That article kind of explains it but misses a key point where people get confused on preference points.

Nonresidents can accumulate at most one preference point per year. This means a nonresident must apply and be unsuccessful for 6 years on a row before having a reasonable chance at drawing a Region G Tag. Further, it means based on the current number of applications, the most a nonresident could hunt mule deer in Wyoming's Region G is once every six years.

This is not how it works. 6 years from now you will not be able to get that tag. Looking at 2013 draw results 3 points had a 48% chance at a tag. <4 points had a 100% chance at drawing the tag. To have a tag this year you needed to start buying your points in 2013. In 2013 you needed <4 to draw. If you start buying points this year you will likely need 9-10 before you get the tag, if ever. Once you are behind and creep continues you won't catch up.

I have zero problem with guys selling points. They paid for them, they can do what they want with them until WY changes the law.

I don't think you are going to see any changes to the points system or laws anytime soon. Hunting trophy big game animals is big business. Trophy animals come from units that require high point totals to draw. A lot of point holders out there with very deep pockets, deeper pockets than the WY Game and Fish. Lawsuits are expensive. Wealthy people don't mind. State agencies with tight budgets do.

 

[wapitibob]

There are top end hunts that don't creep and haven't for years; I drew one.

 

[TheCougar]

Basic math...look at the draw odds.

Wyoming Game and Fish Department - Drawing Odds

wgfd.wyo.gov

This article also explains it pretty well.

Mountain Pursuit

Nonresidents Are Selling Preference Points Under Wyoming's Liberal Party Hunt Draw Regulations

www.mtnpursuit.org

Solution? Real easy, the party goes into the draw with the points of the lowest member of the party.

Yeah, I get the basic math part and how it creates point creep, trust me. The option of going in with the lowest point holder is a pretty crappy solution. Colorado has that and they have the worst point creep of all the states. Now granted, CO's point creep isn't solely caused by their party system, however it doesn't help. I like averaging points as it enables me to take my kids on hunts as they grow older and I have the points. I don't have a solution for the selling of points on applications. Shady to be sure, but every aspect of the hunting industry has become monetized, from trespass fees to coordinates to honey holes, so it doesn't surprise me in the least. As far as the article from Mountain Pursuits, I'm not reading it. Rob Shaul hates us dirty NR public land hunters, so any of his articles are going to be written from that perspective.

 

[jmez]

I wouldn't know, I don't even look at top end units. If they tip the whole preference point system over they are going to get sued.

 

[MuleyFever]

"Solution? Real easy, the party goes into the draw with the points of the lowest member of the party. "

This is what Colorado has... still Point Creep

CO needs to stop awarding points to people that go OTC or to people that draw a 2nd choice tag. That applies to all states. There are too many people competing for a limited resource that is only getting more limited. If you get a tag you should lose your points and move to the back of the line.

 

[cnelk]

CO needs to stop awarding points to people that go OTC or to people that draw a 2nd choice tag.

CPW doesnt award PPs if you hunt OTC. You still have to apply to get a PP.
Lots of people just hunt OTC and never get PPs

 

[BuzzH]

I wouldn't know, I don't even look at top end units. If they tip the whole preference point system over they are going to get sued.

...and whoever sues them will lose the lawsuit and their money.

States can do anything they want to discriminate, change, or not even allow NR's to hunt in their state.

Case law abounds and there was a specific bill passed as a budget bill rider reaffirming the rights of the States to manage game within their borders, including discriminating against NR's any way the want.

 

[MuleyFever]

CPW doesnt award PPs if you hunt OTC. You still have to apply to get a PP.
Lots of people just hunt OTC and never get PPs

I know but a lot also do hunt OTC so they can also collect points.

 

[harge57]

The cougar, longwayaround, and JMEZ. Looks like you guys are maybes. Let me know if you decide to apply for the general.

We have 2.5 points together right now so we are likely right on the cutoff this year. It just makes it so hard to plan your whole season with this big question mark from January to May. Other option is the one with 2 points could just go to the special draw.

I don't see how this would increase point creep in any significant way? In fact it may slow point creep on the limited entry units by giving guys stuck in pt. purgatory a way out with a general tag while not "wasting" their points. There were only ~240 people with 4 or more points applying for general last year. But the guy that applied for general with 12 points could have gotten a little something back on his $600 worth of points.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Eliminate points, random draw all around! weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee