Anyone raise pack goats?

[Wvroach]

So I have a herd of Nubian goats, three of my females are due to Kid in a week or so.

My original intention was to sell off the doe kids with the market the way it is they are going for 300+ they will be registered, but now I'm thinking instead of selling off or processing the wethers for meat I may keep two or three to be pack goats.

The research I've done suggest using wethers opposed to does or bucks to minimize potential udder damage and the smell of the bucks.

So just curious as to what others experiences were with raising pack goats and things they did well and what to avoid.

They will be used predominantly in the Appalachian mountains but may also take them out on some western trips.

 

[McCrapper]

I’ll bump this as I want to know more and I need help finding some pack goats in Texas.

 

[goathunter.oregon]

[I posted a reply last week that got deleted. Adding it back here again.]

I've been raising and hunting with packgoats since 2005. There's a lot to know, but here's a cheat sheet:

- Breeds to stay away from: Nubian, Saanen.

- Breeds to look for: Lamancha, Alpine, Oberhasli, Toggenburg. Alpines are high strung but very athletic, so it's best to cross them with one of the other three breeds.

- The #1 killer of packgoats is a condition called "urinary calculi" which are basically stones that block the urinary tract. To try and prevent this from happening, don't castrate the bucklings before their urethra is fully grown; don't feed them grain or alfalfa after 2 years of age; do feed them a mineral supplement that has a 2:1 calcium to phosphorous ratio (most mineral supplements branded for goats have this ratio wrong so read your labels). Opinions vary as to when the urethra is full grown, but I wouldn't castrate earlier than 6 months of age and I've waited as long as 9 months (some breeders castrate at 2 weeks). There's a book called Diet For Wethers by Carolyn Eddy that digs into this in more detail.

- Goats need a buddy, so don't buy just one or it will cry until you go back and buy him a companion.

- Ideally, packgoats are bottle-fed as kids at least one meal/day until they're weaned. This will make them friendly with people and want to follow you around like a dog.

- Just like any other animal, packgoats come in various temperaments. Some like to pack and some don't. Ideally, you want packgoats that don't lay down on the trail, can handle hot weather, and don't need a lot of pre-season hiking to stay fit. If you buy from a reputable packgoat breeder, you should expect to get all of these traits. If you buy from a dairy goat breeder, you get what you get, but as long as you stick to the preferable breeds (above) and they are bottle fed, you have a good chance of getting a top notch packer.

Feel free to hit me up with any additional questions.

--MATT

 

[Paradox]

I have a number of clients with Boer goats. They seem like pretty rugged buggers. Or maybe cross with another?
thoughts?

 

[goathunter.oregon]

I have a number of clients with Boer goats. They seem like pretty rugged buggers. Or maybe cross with another?
thoughts?

Boer goats are a very muscular breed that's grown primarily for meat. They're rarely seen around here as a packgoat breed, but I have occasionally seen breeders include them as part of a crossbreed mix (Boer/Alpine/Other). The general rule is, floppy-eared goats aren't good packers, but there are always exceptions and the one goat I had with boer as part of the mix was a real powerhouse.

 

[Wvroach]

I already have the Nubians, at this point I have no intention of raising another breed, I do have a mini lamancha/nd cross doe I could breed, they are great milk producers and our herd has a very docile temperament with no escape artist. I like the dual functionality of Nubians as well with the bucklings being weathered for meat if desired. They also sell well in my area.

Seems as though some complaints about Nubians are laziness and being to vocal, my herd is fairly quiet they do call when they see me for a minute or so then settle down. Not like many others I have been around that constantly call.

The other option I have would be to stud out my buck in trade for a kid or 2. He is adga registered with a great lineage. His dam was around 200lbs his sire 275. I may be asking to much to cross him with the smaller doe. I'm trying my hand with what I have for now and if it doesn't work out I'll report back.

 

[204guy]

I'm certainly no expert but nubians seem to be pretty much universally advised against. you might be able to get some to work but you might have to cull through a bunch. I understand the kids are free but consider your input time and cost to get a whether to a couple years old when you can actaully evaulate them.

 

[Billy Goat]

What about them Tennessee Mountain Goats??

 

[Ryan Avery]

I already have the Nubians, at this point I have no intention of raising another breed, I do have a mini lamancha/nd cross doe I could breed, they are great milk producers and our herd has a very docile temperament with no escape artist. I like the dual functionality of Nubians as well with the bucklings being weathered for meat if desired. They also sell well in my area.

Seems as though some complaints about Nubians are laziness and being to vocal, my herd is fairly quiet they do call when they see me for a minute or so then settle down. Not like many others I have been around that constantly call.

The other option I have would be to stud out my buck in trade for a kid or 2. He is adga registered with a great lineage. His dam was around 200lbs his sire 275. I may be asking to much to cross him with the smaller doe. I'm trying my hand with what I have for now and if it doesn't work out I'll report back.

Nubs are generally really lazy. But one of my best goats is a Nub/Ober cross and he is a stud.

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[Wvroach]

I understand the kids are free but consider your input time and cost to get a whether to a couple years old when you can actaully evaulate them.

That is a valid point, I was really pumped to use them as they are about weaned. I may look around for something to cross my buck with, wasn't trying to expand my herd anymore though. All I'd be out of on the wethers is time and worst case they go in the freezer, I would imagine I'd be able to tell mannerisms by a year old, only a few months past butchering time for us anyways. I'll be sure to update as I go.

 

[Wvroach]

Nubs are generally really lazy. But one of my best goats is a Nub/Ober cross and he is a stud.

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So can I blame my goats for not climbing that big ass mountain next time? Lol jk I appreciate the input, I'm stubborn and still going to try my nubs as I have them here, i may look into studding my buck to a different breed doe in exchange for a kid. I'll be out some time invested with them,if it doesn't work out, but it will still be time in the woods and a good learning experience.

 

[McCrapper]

I found my 2 Alpines a few weeks ago and they are enjoying their new home. I havent spent much time around baby goats but mine sure are noisy if I dont feed them on time or entertain them. Hopefully, they grow out of that.

 

[String&stick]

Biggest investment your going to have in figuring out if your Nubians will work is your time. . . As others have stated. To get your pack goats going you want to bond with them a lot. My buddy raises the goats we hunt with and we started with a Hodge podge of dairy breeds before buying some goats from Dwight Sharp that have been bred to be pack goats. Dwight's goats are better goats. We have some good packers don't get me wrong, but when you put them up against the pair we bought from Dwight they just don't stack up quite as well. I can't tell you the exact cross but they are long legged packing machines.

But it's a two year time investment before you really do much saddle work to see how they will carry weight, and 3 years before your putting good weight on them. My buddy takes them for pasture walks almost daily outside of winter, bottle feeds the babies, and love on them like they are dogs. And it works out great when they carry everything into the mountains!!!

When Dwight was down sizing we bought 3 does and a buck from him and are breeding our own now. Which we will probably be selling some as we are at about max capacity. But breed definitely matters and you can give it a go with your nubs but I would look at crossing with a dairy breed to help with work ethic and keep long legs. Boers bring muscle but typically don't have as long of legs on them.

 

[Jacobo2012]

Following. Just picked up 3 full alpine kids that are about a month old. They’re a kick to watch and play with, a doe was also thrown in on top of the 3. Not sure how much she will be capable of packing but can’t leave her back and take the boys out so she will tag along on all outings!


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[goathunter.oregon]

Following. Just picked up 3 full alpine kids that are about a month old. They’re a kick to watch and play with, a doe was also thrown in on top of the 3. Not sure how much she will be capable of packing but can’t leave her back and take the boys out so she will tag along on all outings!


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Be aware that bucklings can breed at 7 weeks of age, so you'll want to keep the doe away from them until they're castrated.

 

[Jacobo2012]

Be aware that bucklings can breed at 7 weeks of age, so you'll want to keep the doe away from them until they're castrated.

Thanks! Do does cycle that early?
I have read about doelings giving birth at ~8 months but also read the does aren’t capable
Of being bred until around 4 months. I’m not sure which ones right
I’ve read so much about early and late castration for the boys not sure if anyone could chime in on that? I know people like to wait till about 6 months or so for growth and also for growth of the ureter.
But the lady I got my goats from said uc Davis I believe did a big study and found it made very little difference. Not sure though


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[goathunter.oregon]

I've read that does can cycle that early, but I don't have first-hand data on that. As far as early castration, the issue centers around goats developing "urinary calculi" which are stones that can block the urinary tract and kill the goat. I've never seen any actual scientific study data that root causes the problem. What I hear most often for preventive measures are these three things:

1) Wait to castrate as long as you can. The idea is to wait until the urethra is fully formed and I've heard people say that's anywhere from 3 months to 9 months.

2) When feeding your goats, try to keep the calcium : phosphorous ratio at 2:1.

3) Don't feed protein after age 2 (no grain, alfalfa, peas, etc).

I was told these three things way back in 2005 when I bought my first goats from a packgoat breeder. Since then, I've raised 13 goats plus purchased two that were full grown and I've tried to follow these three rules.

One of the full grown goats that I purchased was 7 years old and had been fed grain free-choice his whole life until I bought him. He died from urinary calculi 2 months after he joined my herd.

Of the 13 that I raised, I had to put down one at about age 3. Cause of death was unclear, but the symptoms looked like urinary calculi. I had two other goats who lived to be very old (one was 14 and the other was 12) and their symptoms could have been urinary calculi induced, but I didn't do a necropsy to find out.

I think the earliest I ever castrated was 4 months and the longest was 9 months.

I'm guessing that these 3 rules have some level of truth to them. Add in genetic variability, maybe water quality/mineral content, stress, and other unknown factors and you get a wide range of results.

 

[CJ19]

I have nigerian dwarfs. Never tried to pack them. Even thought they are small, mine are actually incredibly stocky and strong. excellent goats in general. The individual personality of each goat seems like it would make all the difference in the world for something like this.

 

[Gobbler36]

I just put a deposit down on 3 kids from a reputable pack goat breeder so here goes nothing don’t have much stock raising experience but I figure you gotta start somewhere lol
I figure the worst that can happen is that they end up in my freezer (jk)
Pack goats.com has a bunch of classes on how to care for goats during each stage of life

 

[goathunter.oregon]

I just put a deposit down on 3 kids from a reputable pack goat breeder so here goes nothing don’t have much stock raising experience but I figure you gotta start somewhere lol
I figure the worst that can happen is that they end up in my freezer (jk)
Pack goats.com has a bunch of classes on how to care for goats during each stage of life

I recently put together a "Packgoat Manual" for a new packgoat owner and I've attached it here for reference. It's not intended to be "everything about goats". It's more of a "pay attention to these things and you should be okay" kind of resource. My way may not be the best way, but it's worked for me and hopefully there's something in here that will keep you out of trouble at least once.