AR15 Arm Brace Comment Period By Jan 4 Act now

[BRTreedogs]

What is it with guys on this forum pulling the ignorant card when they're out of retort?
Never filled out a single 4473?

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A 4473 is a record of sale.
Not registration.

 

[260madman]

It wasn’t given back. The 10 years sunset and GWB said he’d sign legislation to make it permanent if it reached his desk.

 

[260madman]

They do record the S/N and manufacturer and type of weapon on a 4473. They do this after approval and goes in the file. When they come to check records it’s all right there for them to see.

 

[amassi]

A 4473 is a record of sale.
Not registration.

Sale of what? Paper clips or a firearm
Where do those go? Does the ATF have access to them? Do they have your name and address on them? Is every serialized firearm closely monitored from production to disposition in the united states?

How many of the people crying foul also have form 4 registered iten further opening them to investigation by atf?

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[amassi]

It wasn’t given back. The 10 years sunset and GWB said he’d sign legislation to make it permanent if it reached his desk.

The government took a right
You now have that right again
Semantics aside that right was "reaquired"

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[BRTreedogs]

Sale of what? Paper clips or a firearm
Where do those go? Does the ATF have access to them? Do they have your name and address on them? Is every serialized firearm closely monitored from production to disposition in the united states?

How many of the people crying foul also have form 4 registered iten further opening them to investigation by atf?

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Hahaha man you're something.

I didn't have to update anything when I moved or when I sold them private party prior to a couple years ago.
I don't not have to have any proof of where those arms are or went.
That is definitely not registration

 

[amassi]

Hahaha man you're something.

I didn't have to update anything when I moved or when I sold them private party prior to a couple years ago.
I don't not have to have any proof of where those arms are or went.
That is definitely not registration

The point is the government knows who you are, that you've owned certain firearms at one time and where you live. It's no shorter path to your door than if you had some form 4 items that were "registered".

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[BRTreedogs]

The point is the government knows who you are, that you've owned certain firearms at one time and where you live. It's no shorter path to your door than if you had some form 4 items that were "registered".

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That doesn't mean I'm gonna sit on my thumbs and go quietly into the night under there submission.
I will continue to fight to keep everything I have and can get.

 

[rodney482]

And then people used them as buttstocks which led to them re examining whether or not the stabilizing brace was being used as a brace as intended or a buttstock.

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Led to them ruling it could be shouldered

 

[Desk Jockey]

The point is the government knows who you are, that you've owned certain firearms at one time and where you live. It's no shorter path to your door than if you had some form 4 items that were "registered".

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I tend to agree with you that registration in an age computerized transfer logs is a bit less impactful. However, there is ample evidence to suggest that registration is usually a precursor to more restrictions And, in the worst cases, confiscation.

Also, modern registration laws are Expansive And tend to give a lot more ground than simply putting your name one a list. I lived in NY until recently and the registration forms for ARs permitted “inspection” of your fire arms storage in your residence without notice or warrant by the state police or local authorities With no limitations and time or prior notice, among other things.

finally, I do understand that the ATF obtained sales and customer information from polymer 80, the 80% lower maker they raided a few weeks back. So, it isn’t a stretch to think they might be collecting the same info on brace sales at some point.

 

[amassi]

I tend to agree with you that registration in an age computerized transfer logs is a bit less impactful. However, there is ample evidence to suggest that registration is usually a precursor to more restrictions And, in the worst cases, confiscation.

Also, modern registration laws are Expansive And tend to give a lot more ground than simply putting your name one a list. I lived in NY until recently and the registration forms for ARs permitted “inspection” of your fire arms storage in your residence without notice or warrant by the state police or local authorities With no limitations and time or prior notice, among other things.

finally, I do understand that the ATF obtained sales and customer information from polymer 80, the 80% lower maker they raided a few weeks back. So, it isn’t a stretch to think they might be collecting the same info on brace sales at some point.

There has been no confiscation in the United states or any other representative republic with a constitutional amendment guaranteeing those rights.

Form 4 goes into much of what you experienced in New york about inspection etc. What I cant find is any meaningful incident of any agency performing a random no knock inspection of any firearm without first having reasonable suspicion. Many of those people worried about firearms registration are already on the books

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[amassi]

That doesn't mean I'm gonna sit on my thumbs and go quietly into the night under there submission.
I will continue to fight to keep everything I have and can get.

And you should when the time comes I'll gladly help out anyway I can- I honestly was just trying to dispel the common myth in American gun culture that there isnt already a registration system in place and a furtherance of that system is no worse than what's already happening.

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[amassi]

Led to then ruling it could be shouldered

And now reversed course. As they were only issuing their opinion based upon the best available evidence. Since no laws were passed they have the ability to remain fluid.

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[rodney482]

And now reversed course. As they were only issuing their opinion based upon the best available evidence. Since no laws were passed they have the ability to remain fluid.

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Wonder how they will notify every owner

 

[Desk Jockey]

There has been no confiscation in the United states or any other representative republic with a constitutional amendment guaranteeing those rights.

Form 4 goes into much of what you experienced in New york about inspection etc. What I cant find is any meaningful incident of any agency performing a random no knock inspection of any firearm without first having reasonable suspicion. Many of those people worried about firearms registration are already on the books

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I do agree that many firearms owners are already on the books.

however, I am not sure I agree with you about confiscation but any sources of information tend to exhibit bias of their side of the isle. Maybe check out the snopes article on the topic if you are inclined.

I would also argue that if that search power has no implication then it shouldnt need to be included in the registration process. It seems like you shouldn’t have to sign away your 4th amendment in order to exercise your second.

also, form 4 NFA registration imposes some restrictions on storage and travel, in addition to transfer. AR pistols won’t be the only focus. I expect we’ll see a proposal to make all semiauto rifles or a good number of them into NFA items.

lastly, I lived in California and New York for the last 20 years. Dealt with things like having to take a basic pistol course in order to get a purchase permit in CA. 30% inflated prices on NY handguns and 3-9 month waits for your purchases to be approved by county officials Before you could take possession. Limits on ammo purchases, how many rounds you can store in your house and on and on and on.

again, I agree that gun ownership and purchase info is probably widely available to law enforcement. However, there is a lot of daylight between current state and having form 4 registration expanded to include more and more categories of weapons.

 

[amassi]

I do agree that many firearms owners are already on the books.

however, I am not sure I agree with you about confiscation but any sources of information tend to exhibit bias of their side of the isle. Maybe check out the snopes article on the topic if you are inclined.

I would also argue that if that search power has no implication then it shouldnt need to be included in the registration process. It seems like you shouldn’t have to sign away your 4th amendment in order to exercise your second.

also, form 4 NFA registration imposes some restrictions on storage and travel, in addition to transfer. AR pistols won’t be the only focus. I expect we’ll see a proposal to make all semiauto rifles or a good number of them into NFA items.

lastly, I lived in California and New York for the last 20 years. Dealt with things like having to take a basic pistol course in order to get a purchase permit in CA. 30% inflated prices on NY handguns and 3-9 month waits for your purchases to be approved by county officials Before you could take possession. Limits on ammo purchases, how many rounds you can store in your house and on and on and on.

again, I agree that gun ownership and purchase info is probably widely available to law enforcement. However, there is a lot of daylight between current state and having form 4 registration expanded to include more and more categories of weapons.

Agree with all of the above save for the confiscation. I just don't fear any confiscation scheme that isnt protected by armed 2nd amendment proponents. There's a couple million Veterans that swore to uphold the constitution and I don't think this country has the stomach for the mess that confiscation would entail.
We have local sheriff's departments refusing to enforce gun laws and health ordinances so who exactly is going to come pick these guns up?

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[amassi]

Wonder how they will notify every owner

Its the owners responsibility to remain in compliance unfortunately. Doubtful some District attorney would nail butt to wall over a legitimate mistake of fact

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[rodney482]

Its the owners responsibility to remain in compliance unfortunately. Doubtful some District attorney would nail butt to wall over a legitimate mistake of fact

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Well it would be federal law.... not state law

 

[amassi]

Well it would be federal law.... not state law

And the us attorneys office(federal) also operates out of districts. Doubtful their going to spend the time and money chasing a non compliant pistol brace.
Local and federal authorities will use them as enhancements to other crimes though

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[rodney482]

And the us attorneys office(federal) also operates out of districts. Doubtful their going to spend the time and money chasing a non compliant pistol brace.
Local and federal authorities will use them as enhancements to other crimes though

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Local authorities wont touch it....no diff than Bumpstocks.