Archery Arrow weight/FOC for elk

[No_Murphy]

I am 28" draw and right now drawing ~58 lbs, hopefully it will be closer to ~65 lbs by next fall when I want to try to elk hunt. I am looking at changing to an Easton 5.0 arrow with the 50 grain steel half outs and a 125-grain fixed blade broadhead. Will possibly also have lighted nocks, but not set on that yet. Without nocks, total arrow weight will be around 430-435 grains with around 15% FOC. With nocks, its 445-450 grains with around 13% FOC. If you have hunted elk before, do you think this is a good arrow weight to be at or should I throw a 150 grain broadhead on there to bump the weight and FOC up. Max shot will be 50-60 yards depending on how well I am shooting right before the hunt if I am lucky enough to draw a tag.

 

[Beendare]

You are agonizing over a nothing burger.
I've seen close to 100 elk shot with an arrow, including mine.

You won't be able to tell the difference between a 430g arrow and 445g at normal bowhunting distances. Piles of elk have been killed with lighter arrows than that.

Same with a few % points of FOC....it's the most over rated factor in archery.

FYI
The longer your BH and insert combo, the harder it is to get concentricity, ie- getting your BH's aligned to spin perfect. Half outs are a solution to a non existent problem.

Best practice; 420g to 500g with FOC in the Easton range, 8-16% is a good range to kill anything in North America. If you are using an inefficient BH design, stay on the high side of that arrow weight range.

Don't be under spined, modern compounds shoot over spined arrows just fine.

BH tune no matter what BH you use.

 

[Skerhunter]

I would not worry about going up in weight (shoot 125 gr head with standard inserts and lighted nocks or heavier insert with 100gr heads).

Pay attention to what spine you choose if cranking up weight of bow while having front/back of arrow loaded with extra weight (don’t choose the weaker side now).

 

[Mighty Mouse]

To echo Beendare, the arrow weights you’re considering are perfectly adequate. Ignore FOC…build the arrow you want to build and let FOC fall where it may. Use a hidden insert (HIT) instead of a half-out.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Yep shot placement and sharpness of your BH will trump just about anything. teenage girls are killing bulls with 45lb draws and 400 grain arrows

 

[ResearchinStuff]

halfouts suck, pick a different method of attaching everything together. pick a good head, broadhead tune, then sharpen them like razors.

 

[NXTZ]

I’ll echo the other guys in this thread; avoid halfouts like the plague, and save yourself the mental anguish of worrying about foc.

I just got some 5.0s to try out, and used the 50 grain brass hit inserts. They’re nice arrows, but I’m not sure the price increase is worth it over axis. My 5.0s are about 50 grains lighter than my axis (same build otherwise), and I just shot an unmarked 3D this weekend using both arrows. Long story short, the weight difference had marginal (like, a couple points) effects on my score. 20 grains and 2% foc will be absolutely insignificant for 98% of archers.

 

[Marshfly]

Better accuracy is not really the reason for the new Easton 5.0s and Victory HLRs. Range forgiveness is the big advantage I see. The faster your arrow is the more you can be off in estimated range to the target and still make an acceptable hit. That said I am sticking with RIP TKOs for now.

That said, for the OP, what you are building is fine though I much prefer hit+collar to halfserts. I do use the Victory stainless outserts on the regular RIPs my wife and son shoot as they are a pretty good component.

 

[blackveltbowhunter]

Both setups will be great. Just make sure you are correctly spined for your final draw weight and go hunt.

 

[Beendare]

Yep shot placement and sharpness of your BH will trump just about anything. teenage girls are killing bulls with 45lb draws and 400 grain arrows

OP, I reread my comment and it sounded pretty Dicky....sorry for that but when you realize that @Hnthrdr is exactly right...you can stop focusing on the silly stuff and work on avoiding bad habits and being a better shooter.

I shot a 800# moose a few years back with my recurve. 2 arrows completely through that giant....with a 47# recurve generating about 1/3rd the energy of your bow.

Now a couple key factors; those arrows were assembled perfectly, and flew perfect [no wobble] .....and I did match a very efficient 2 blade BH to my anemic setup for best case penetration....but both arrows hardly slowed down through the lungs and bouncing across the ground 30y past that moose.

Its a fact; A bow shot arrow is an amazing killing machine with just a few key factors.

The Internet influencers saying you need a 650g and uber FOC to kill an elk....are literally full of the proverbial excrement....in fact one fairy dude has literally never killed an elk.

 

[roosiebull]

I am 28" draw and right now drawing ~58 lbs, hopefully it will be closer to ~65 lbs by next fall when I want to try to elk hunt. I am looking at changing to an Easton 5.0 arrow with the 50 grain steel half outs and a 125-grain fixed blade broadhead. Will possibly also have lighted nocks, but not set on that yet. Without nocks, total arrow weight will be around 430-435 grains with around 15% FOC. With nocks, its 445-450 grains with around 13% FOC. If you have hunted elk before, do you think this is a good arrow weight to be at or should I throw a 150 grain broadhead on there to bump the weight and FOC up. Max shot will be 50-60 yards depending on how well I am shooting right before the hunt if I am lucky enough to draw a tag.

You are fine bro

Don’t overthink it, it’s not very scientific, it’s caveman stuff

 

[roosiebull]

Better accuracy is not really the reason for the new Easton 5.0s and Victory HLRs. Range forgiveness is the big advantage I see. The faster your arrow is the more you can be off in estimated range to the target and still make an acceptable hit.

I know what you’re saying, and agree with the premise, but I would like to see those people take 2 arrows of the same build, one with a 5.0, one with an axis and shoot both arrows at the same dot with the same pin at all ranges.

I have done similar tests with much bigger gaps in arrow weight, and the poi wasn’t much different at any distance where I would shoot without a confirmed range

Not that anyone needs to give an explanation to buy new arrows, but acting like axis are too heavy and 5.0’s are awesome is a little stretch from reality, unless you are guessing on 80yd shots

 

[sndmn11]

Spend the time analyzing arrow assembly details on tuning the arrow you have now. Half of that tuning is a clean release that can be practiced at 3 yards in the garage.

You can decide your FOC, arrow mass, draw weight, whatever is all "perfect", but penetration starts with seamless arrow flight. Not achieving that is detrimental to the terminal result.

 

[06 SB]

I’d drop the half outs and go with Axis or any other slightly heavier arrow. I have a 28.5” DL, 62# Mathews V3X and get 275fps with 420gr Easton Axis 5mm arrows. No elk will stop this arrow unless I hit a shoulder. My Switchback with the same arrow at 255 fps worked fine too.

Concentrate on perfect arrow flight and scalpel-sharp BH blades. Many replaceable blades need a touch up even when new. FOC is far less important than many other factors unless it is ridiculously low or high.

 

[Marshfly]

I know what you’re saying, and agree with the premise, but I would like to see those people take 2 arrows of the same build, one with a 5.0, one with an axis and shoot both arrows at the same dot with the same pin at all ranges.

I have done similar tests with much bigger gaps in arrow weight, and the poi wasn’t much different at any distance where I would shoot without a confirmed range

Not that anyone needs to give an explanation to buy new arrows, but acting like axis are too heavy and 5.0’s are awesome is a little stretch from reality, unless you are guessing on 80yd shots

That's not what I'm saying and won't demonstrate what I am describing. That test simply does not demonstrate the size of the forgiveness in any way whatsoever.

The increase in the size of the effective bubble is easily noticeable if you test it correctly. By that I mean shooting closer and further from your pin distance to see the rise and drop of the arrow. Animals move. They can move during your shot or once you are at full draw. Faster arrows have more forgiveness for that. There's no debating that. Only the individual archer can decide if that difference is meaningful for them. And that difference gets less meaningful the faster your arrows are starting out.


I'm not saying these new arrows are the savior. I don't care what people shoot. And I have a pile of RIP TKOs sitting around. I'm simply explaining the reasoning behind their existence.

 

[NXTZ]

Now granted I haven’t gotten to really play with this past 40 yards (where to difference would be more significant) but here’s a shot from precision cut using my setup and 5.0/axis configurations with the same total point and insert weight and same fletching.

For ME, I think I’d need a bigger difference in arrow weight to start seeing more meaningful differences. Undoubtedly the lighter faster arrow will be more forgiving of range errors, but this chart and my initial experiments (using @Marshfly’s test method) suggests that the “forgiveness” is pretty minimal. I will need to try to mess with this at longer ranges (60+) to see how accurate the chart is.

At the unmarked 3D shoot I referenced, I used the 5.0 one day, and the axis the next day. I’m grossly out of practice for unmarked 3D, but my scores both days were very close; not a massive difference in favor of the faster arrow. I was a little surprised since I figured a flatter trajectory would have more of an impact on my score. Guess the moral is that if I misjudge by more than 5 yards, I’m missing with either setup

 

[sndmn11]

Now granted I haven’t gotten to really play with this past 40 yards (where to difference would be more significant) but here’s a shot from precision cut using my setup and 5.0/axis configurations with the same total point and insert weight and same fletching.

For ME, I think I’d need a bigger difference in arrow weight to start seeing more meaningful differences. Undoubtedly the lighter faster arrow will be more forgiving of range errors, but this chart and my initial experiments (using @Marshfly’s test method) suggests that the “forgiveness” is pretty minimal. I will need to try to mess with this at longer ranges (60+) to see how accurate the chart is.

At the unmarked 3D shoot I referenced, I used the 5.0 one day, and the axis the next day. I’m grossly out of practice for unmarked 3D, but my scores both days were very close; not a massive difference in favor of the faster arrow. I was a little surprised since I figured a flatter trajectory would have more of an impact on my score. Guess the moral is that if I misjudge by more than 5 yards, I’m missing with either setup

This is what I experience as well. I retuned some 400 spine Spartans from 300 spine Spartans, and dropped 75gr in the process this weekend. My fixed pins 20-60 all stayed the same, and my 100yd tape dropped 4 yards.

I find that I can switch arrows around and my pin gap isn't off enough for me to out shoot it.

 

[Elkhntr08]

I see people agonizing over FOC, arrow weight and whatever the latest YouTube fad is.
Here’s my .02, a sharp head shot from a well tuned bow placed in the heart/lung area equals a dead elk. Stop fretting over little things. Tune your bow, shoot a comfortable weight and pick a quality head that is shaving sharp.
Go elk hunting.

 

[WCB]

I am 28" draw and right now drawing ~58 lbs, hopefully it will be closer to ~65 lbs by next fall when I want to try to elk hunt. I am looking at changing to an Easton 5.0 arrow with the 50 grain steel half outs and a 125-grain fixed blade broadhead. Will possibly also have lighted nocks, but not set on that yet. Without nocks, total arrow weight will be around 430-435 grains with around 15% FOC. With nocks, its 445-450 grains with around 13% FOC. If you have hunted elk before, do you think this is a good arrow weight to be at or should I throw a 150 grain broadhead on there to bump the weight and FOC up. Max shot will be 50-60 yards depending on how well I am shooting right before the hunt if I am lucky enough to draw a tag.

You are worrying about nothing. You could just shoot 100gr heads with no added weight besides a standard insert and be good. I have never even thought of FOC because IMO it really doesn't matter.

 

[Marshfly]

Now granted I haven’t gotten to really play with this past 40 yards (where to difference would be more significant) but here’s a shot from precision cut using my setup and 5.0/axis configurations with the same total point and insert weight and same fletching.

For ME, I think I’d need a bigger difference in arrow weight to start seeing more meaningful differences. Undoubtedly the lighter faster arrow will be more forgiving of range errors, but this chart and my initial experiments (using @Marshfly’s test method) suggests that the “forgiveness” is pretty minimal. I will need to try to mess with this at longer ranges (60+) to see how accurate the chart is.

At the unmarked 3D shoot I referenced, I used the 5.0 one day, and the axis the next day. I’m grossly out of practice for unmarked 3D, but my scores both days were very close; not a massive difference in favor of the faster arrow. I was a little surprised since I figured a flatter trajectory would have more of an impact on my score. Guess the moral is that if I misjudge by more than 5 yards, I’m missing with either setup

Good info there. I bet your speeds are fairly fast. I think it makes a bigger difference the slower you start and if you gain or drop a more significant amount of weight. When I compared the Victory HLR to my current RIP TKOs I would only drop less than 20 grains. So I decided tossup with the proven TKOs.