Archery Hunter Killed by ML Hunter

[sndmn11]

From CPW John Livingston in the aforementioned article, "A key principal of hunter education is to be sure of your target and what is beyond it before you aim or take a shot. If not 100% sure, do not aim or take the shot. Also, a hunter must clearly identify his target based on a hunting tag specific to animal type, age and gender."

Key phrases: "before you aim", "do not aim", imagine that!

 

[Idaho4x4Bronco]

From CPW John Livingston in the aforementioned article, "A key principal of hunter education is to be sure of your target and what is beyond it before you aim or take a shot. If not 100% sure, do not aim or take the shot. Also, a hunter must clearly identify his target based on a hunting tag specific to animal type, age and gender."

Key phrases: "before you aim", "do not aim", imagine that!

Yeah, but I'll be the asshole for agreeing with you once people on the internet go crazy saying it's an accident. An accident is when you cut yourself quartering your harvest. Taking a young guy from his family because you're too stupid to look at your target is okay to some people. It's murder, call it ignorant or neglegent. Doesn't matter, it IS 100% the fault of the person behind the trigger.

Anyone who tries to defend the ML shooter, put yourself in the shoes of the guy who was killed, you'll have to go to the morgue to find them.

 

[bradyhunt]

Arrest affidavit details fatal hunting incident in Dolores County

An arrest affidavit reveals that two hunters from Pennsylvania were calling in an elk Friday morning in the San Juan National Forest north of Rico when one mistook a bow hunter for their prey and fata...

www.durangoherald.com

What is an elk calling unit? Also no mention of a bow mounted/shoot through decoy.

 

[Red Letters]

Did anyone catch the time of day this happened, was it full light..dusk?

not making any excuses just curios

 

[Sled]

Did anyone catch the time of day this happened, was it full light..dusk?

not making any excuses just curios

8 or 8:30 from the article.



not sure if fox pro electronic calls are legal in colorado. the article could be misinformed and the second PA hunter may have just been blowing his own call.

 

[sndmn11]

Did anyone catch the time of day this happened, was it full light..dusk?

not making any excuses just curios

I think the article's summary of the affidavit started the timeline at 0830

 

[Sherman]

I have read every article regarding this incident I could find. About half of them state that it took 10 hours for the recovery team to find the victim.....not get the victim out....just to locate him. It would seem the shooter would be able to pinpoint the location and all of the available information makes it seem as if the incident happened near a trailhead. Add in the shooter was 67 years old, I am trying to imagine a man that old would be a 10 hour hike off of the trailhead. I am curious about what took so long, how soon after the incident the shooter reported, etc.

So sad for all parties involved. Breaks my heart to think about.

 

[Laramie]

True but people that are raised in the west seem to know what an elk looks like. I’ve heard some wild stories of people from back east hunting the west. Like a check station in Montana where some guys from out east had a llama in the back of their truck that they thought was an elk

West is a pretty general term. Where exactly do you draw the line? How about LA? Maybe Vegas? I can guarantee a certain percentage of people from Laramie, Cheyenne, and Ft Collins wouldn't know the difference between a moose and an elk.

A guy from "Central Colorado" shot and killed a big bull moose on an elk tag just a few years ago in southern Wyoming. Here is a link to another shot in Colorado by a local hunter - https://www.durangoherald.com/articles/hunter-mistakenly-kills-moose-in-silverton/

Generalizing people based on the location they happen to live is BS, period. I used to think that way in my youth growing up in rural Wyoming. As I got older and started to look around, I started to realize stupid doesn't know a location. It's based on poor genetics and/or parents not doing their job. Whole lot of the later going on in our country right now and I can tell you, that's a problem everywhere.

 

[mproberts]

“When he saw white in the pines, he took a shot at what he thought was an elk,” according to the affidavit.

That is terrifying.. and to think the punishment for killing someone like that is only like 1-3 years max in Colorado. I'd also honestly be shocked if he spent more than a year in for it. Someone lost their life, someone lost their spouse and a family will never be the same because you are shooting at colors. That just seems more in line with reckless behavior and manslaughter than failure to perceive risk of death and criminal negligence. How could you not be aware that shooting a firearm could cause death, and how could shooting at a color not be reckless?!

"the Colorado crime of manslaughter is when someone dies as a result of your reckless behavior. This means you are aware of — yet you consciously disregard — a substantial and unjustifiable risk of death from your conduct.
Criminally negligent homicide is when you fail to perceive such a risk when you ought to. Another way of saying this is that criminally negligent homicide is an unintentional killing caused by your failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk of death."

 

[Red Letters]

I was confused by that sentence when I first read it in the article, because it goes on to say Gregory was dressed out in dark brown camo. where does the white come into play?

Actually these news outlets reporting on any event is always a mess.

 

[IdahoHntr]

My point is that it is not a far step from making a habit out of aiming at an elk as step one in determining legality, to aiming at a something to determine if it is an elk. The only way to make safety paramount and the priority is to make it an absolute. By aiming first, you are prioritizing the sight picture over safety and creating a habit of putting sights on first.

There are so many situations that contradict what you've said. You would never be able to shoot at an animal in any sort of herd or group if you followed your rules. Too much chance of pointing a muzzle at one of the animals you aren't going to shoot. You wouldn't be able to point your muzzle at a gap in the trees as animals file by as you wait for the animal you are going to shoot to come by. When shooting guns we never shoot if another human is downrange of our muzzle, but how in the world are you supposed to apply that to animals in the woods, when there is virtually always animals downrange of your muzzle that you aren't going to shoot? I've shot over the top of deer in the bottom of a gulley to kill a buck on an opposite hillside, but I would never in a million years shoot over the top of a a person. What about bird hunting? I've covered hundreds of birds that I haven't shot. If you identified birds before you ever pulled your gun up in most upland situations you would have never killed a bird in your life. If you have ever pointed your muzzle in the direction of any group of animals and not "destroyed" them all, your breaking your own advice.


As hunters we have already established that killing an animal and killing a human are vastly different things. One is getting dinner while the other is murder. Equating those two acts is ridiculous. Equating animals to humans is PETA's job.

 

[chadcharb]

in some states, like WA, overlapping seasons require usual hunter orange requirement for all in the woods.

But not all. Orange isn't required for bear(any weapon) or muzzle loader seasons and they all overlap at certain points. I've always thought it was odd that no orange was required for bear season. You only have to wear orange if a rifle deer or elk season is open in Washington

 

[sndmn11]

There are so many situations that contradict what you've said. You would never be able to shoot at an animal in any sort of herd or group if you followed your rules. Too much chance of pointing a muzzle at one of the animals you aren't going to shoot. You wouldn't be able to point your muzzle at a gap in the trees as animals file by as you wait for the animal you are going to shoot to come by. When shooting guns we never shoot if another human is downrange of our muzzle, but how in the world are you supposed to apply that to animals in the woods, when there is virtually always animals downrange of your muzzle that you aren't going to shoot? I've shot over the top of deer in the bottom of a gulley to kill a buck on an opposite hillside, but I would never in a million years shoot over the top of a a person. What about bird hunting? I've covered hundreds of birds that I haven't shot. If you identified birds before you ever pulled your gun up in most upland situations you would have never killed a bird in your life. If you have ever pointed your muzzle in the direction of any group of animals and not "destroyed" them all, your breaking your own advice.


As hunters we have already established that killing an animal and killing a human are vastly different things. One is getting dinner while the other is murder. Equating those two acts is ridiculous. Equating animals to humans is PETA's job.

Those are universal rules, taught universally, and accepted universally.
How do you identify a flying bird when your bead is covering it? We know that the crosshairs or sights or bead should be the point of impact. Accepting that as fact eliminates your fear of "general direction"; the projectile doesn't fly willy nilly and curve, it flies in a precise repeatable path. When I have hunted pheasants, shotgun comes up below and off the bird as bird is identified, if it is a yes, the swing is completed to put the bird within the POA/POI. If it is a no, you don't complete the swing.
When you shot over the top of deer, were those deer at the intersection of your crosshairs? I would assume not, which is probably why they didn't get shot and why a logical person would say you were not aiming at them. I would also assume that helped you realized bullets go where the crosshairs are, and they do not go where the crosshairs aren't. I lastly would assume that you don't need anyone to keep explaining how the dots are connected from there.
"Accidentally" shooting a person, "accidentally" shooting the wrong animal, "accidentally" shooting your truck, "accidentally" shooting your tent, "accidentally" shooting nothing ALL happen because one or more of those rules are not followed. Equating any of those acts to shooting a person is absolutely the right line of thought because there should be zero tolerance for unsafe handling of firearms. Fudging the rules because some "accidents" do not result in a lose of human life is a lack of integrity and ingraining unsafe habits. Would you tell your kids it is ok to drive intoxicated as long as nobody else is in the car, or as long as they don't get caught? "I've done this a million times, it will be ok"...

 

[Jwknutson17]

ML guys around where I hunt are the biggest mess I've ever run into. Maybe 6-8 guys with actual tags but the camp is a good 20+ people. All have 4wheelers and they drop guys off on the mountain and make pushes for the guys with the tags. It's a total unsafe disaster and they blow out the whole area. They sight their guns in on the edge of the forest day before the opener. Some of these same woods I've pursued elk in. I quit archery hunting during ML for the obvious reasons above..

Sucks for this guys family. Prayers heading their way.

 

[KHNC]

No kidding. Of course it was a dumb ass from the East. Should be charged with murder, that guy was more then double the age of the archery hunter he murdered. People are fawkin stupid, careless, and there is NO REASON to shoot another hunter.

Fkn stupid comment that might get you knocked the f out in the east , by a dumb ass. Of course the shooter was an idiot, a fool, and careless, but doesnt mean he was that way by being from the east.

 

[prm]

Certainly not an “accident”. The decision to aim, or shoot, at the unknown is the issue. What vitals did he think he was aiming at? Orange, or not, is not the real problem here.

 

[txhunter581]

But not all. Orange isn't required for bear(any weapon) or muzzle loader seasons and they all overlap at certain points. I've always thought it was odd that no orange was required for bear season. You only have to wear orange if a rifle deer or elk season is open in Washington

Not really sure what you are trying to convey. In Colorado, September bear rifle season is basically the same dates as archery ( the whole month of September). Both bear rifle hunters and muzzleloader hunters are required to wear orange. Bow hunters are not at any time unless they are hunting with a bow on a rifle tag

 

[Laramie]

Certainly not an “accident”. The decision to aim, or shoot, at the unknown is the issue. What vitals did he think he was aiming at? Orange, or not, is not the real problem here.

I agree completely. Even if that had been an elk, good chance he wounds and loses the animal. The actions of the ML hunter were intentional, even though he didn't know he was shooting at a person.

How many other people are in the woods that would act similarly? How do we fix that? Orange on archery hunters isn't the solution imo.

 

[Sled]

Fkn stupid comment that might get you knocked the f out in the east , by a dumb ass. Of course the shooter was an idiot, a fool, and careless, but doesnt mean he was that way by being from the east.

Judging by the guys handle you quoted, he's from Idaho.
A guy from Idaho has no reason to go to the east. Btw, stereotypes gain traction for a reason. Simply put, more people are shot while hunting in the east than the west. It could be more of a terrain or population density issue but where's the fun in that. After living in the southeast for two decades I can say hunters orange is there for a reason.

 

[Idaho4x4Bronco]

Fkn stupid comment that might get you knocked the f out in the east , by a dumb ass. Of course the shooter was an idiot, a fool, and careless, but doesnt mean he was that way by being from the east.

I'll stand by it all day, thanks for your concern cupcake.