Arrow build - wind drift

[sndmn11]

After bowhunting in various places for ~25 years, I've come to the conclusion that the wind's affect on my aim is a much bigger factor than what it does to my arrow post-release. My sense is guys overthink it.

This is where I am 1000X over. I think wind drift is a convenient excuse for a poorly executed shot, or a poor decision to shoot if the bow is getting tossed around. It does occur, but I think the bow flailing is more of an influence.

 

[Super 91]

You may have inadvertently skipped over the parts of the process for which you use the mill, lathe, and drill press.

From where I sit, extending the process of gluing together a bunch of components you bought on Amazon from ~45 minutes to 4-5 hours doesn't cause it to transcend from "making" or "assembling" arrows to "an arrow build". But if that is how you want to refer to it in the broader context of developing your tactical bow system, who am I to judge?

So if you buy your motor parts off Amazon, then you no longer qualify as "building" your motor? LOL....I mean, you're just screwing a bunch of bolts and slabs of metal together you bought as a kit anyways....I mean get real, either way there is a right and wrong way to assemble whatever you are working on, and assembly is building. Same way as a contractor I assembled buildings by screwing components together using various techniques and ended up with a completed project. Where you buy your parts is irrelevant. Knowledge is key. Apparently you feel the need to call it one term vs another and that bothers you. To you, just "slapping" arrow parts together is easy and that makes it less of a "build" than other things. Whatever. And BTW, I don't buy my parts from Amazon, not that it would make one bit of difference. I don't extend building arrows out for hours because I want to do it for hours, I build arrows to be the best they can be, just like you might want your new motor to be balanced and blueprinted and perform as awesome as it could possibly be. I take pride in my work, as you probably do if you were to build a motor. I'm sure you don't just slap a bunch of factory parts together, I'm sure you buy custom parts and machine some yourself to make the motor the best is can be for a specific purpose. I do the same for arrows, I use parts from many different manufacturers as well as build, yes build by machining my own components to make an arrow perform perfect for a specific task. Call it what you want, but I build my arrows.

 

[4rcgoat]

.....that reminds me,I need to assemble a build up of arrows myself, I'll report back later with results

 

[Billy Goat]

If you think engine assembly is anywhere near arrow assembly you pretty off base. Plenty are using custom built parts anyways. You call up places to custom size your inserts?

 

[Super 91]

If you think engine assembly is anywhere near arrow assembly you pretty off base. Plenty are using custom built parts anyways. You call up places to custom size your inserts?

I'm not saying they are of the same magnitude, I am saying both take time and effort to assemble, thus I say both would be considered "builds". I make my own components for some of the arrows I build. That is no different than someone modding out a custom engine with a part they or someone else machines or makes. Just on a completely different scale. I spent 10 hours today working on arrows. I got 32 "built" in that time using my parts I made as well as manufactured parts.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'm not saying they are of the same magnitude, I am saying both take time and effort to assemble, thus I say both would be considered "builds". I make my own components for some of the arrows I build. That is no different than someone modding out a custom engine with a part they or someone else machines or makes. Just on a completely different scale. I spent 10 hours today working on arrows. I got 32 "built" in that time using my parts I made as well as manufactured parts.

I know knappers, as well as some guys who have spent a lot of quality time with staves and draw knives. Those are builders.

Taking less than a dozen components and putting them together is just assembling. Tho we are in different times now, apparently hipsters have been able to rename bartenders mixologist's so I guess it's whatever.

Just drives me nuts to hear/read about bow or rifle "builds" that are just a few things put together, all so they can "run" them in some part of their "kit".



Chit, I'm empty.
Need to go build me another Bloody Mary.

 

[Marble]

There's about nobody shooting for money in 3d using small diameter.

Maybe shooting this TAC stuff where it's all for fun, but virtually all the pros in the shootoffs yesterday had 23's. Danny Evans doesn't, but it has nothing to do with wind, it's cause they carry better from 40-50 yards causing less drop.

Its just not what I see when I go to outdoor 3d shoots. I think the most popular arrow I see shot is the Easton X 10 pro tour. That's what I'm referring to.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[arlenmyles]

That's the reason your heavier four-fletch do better in the wind. Also, higher FOC will do better in the wind.

High FOC will keep the point of aim better in high wind but the tail of the arrow might be flapping around. This could cause the arrow to enter the target extremely angulated.

 

[Billy Goat]

Its just not what I see when I go to outdoor 3d shoots. I think the most popular arrow I see shot is the Easton X 10 pro tour. That's what I'm referring to.

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Where are you shooting that the majority of guys are spending over $500 a dozen for 3d shafts?

I see a handful of outdoor shooters use those shafts, that's about it. Broadwater used them a little a year or 2 ago, he has been back to super drives 23's for 3d.

Redding is a different game, a lot of those guys use skinnies, but it's really just a field shoot.

 

[5MilesBack]

You call up places to custom size your inserts?

I tried to put 75gr brass HIT's in my RIP TKO's. They wouldn't fit. The regular aluminum ones fit fine, but the brass wouldn't go in even a little bit. I measured the aluminum ones I had at .202", and the brass were .204". So I guess the ID of the RIP TKO's is a little under .204". I didn't place an order for custom sized inserts.........I just "rigged" up my own version of a "lathe" and sanded them down until they were a perfect fit. Since I did that myself, does that qualify as building my arrows? On the other hand........lathing is actually "removing" material, so I guess that could never be considered part of the "building" process.

 

[sndmn11]

I tried to put 75gr brass HIT's in my RIP TKO's. They wouldn't fit. The regular aluminum ones fit fine, but the brass wouldn't go in even a little bit. I measured the aluminum ones I had at .202", and the brass were .204". So I guess the ID of the RIP TKO's is a little under .204". I didn't place an order for custom sized inserts.........I just "rigged" up my own version of a "lathe" and sanded them down until they were a perfect fit. Since I did that myself, does that qualify as building my arrows? On the other hand........lathing is actually "removing" material, so I guess that could never be considered part of the "building" process.

Custom build!

 

[Billy Goat]

I tried to put 75gr brass HIT's in my RIP TKO's. They wouldn't fit. The regular aluminum ones fit fine, but the brass wouldn't go in even a little bit. I measured the aluminum ones I had at .202", and the brass were .204". So I guess the ID of the RIP TKO's is a little under .204". I didn't place an order for custom sized inserts.........I just "rigged" up my own version of a "lathe" and sanded them down until they were a perfect fit. Since I did that myself, does that qualify as building my arrows? On the other hand........lathing is actually "removing" material, so I guess that could never be considered part of the "building" process.

Do you build Ikea furniture?

Seems the same to me, none of their junk ever fits together right either. Chucking something in a drill and calling it a lathe? Getting fancy.


If you really want to take the pride in some amount of craftsmanship to call it a build when it's just a little assembly go ahead, just find it an insult to people who are actually skilled in stuff that they actually do build.


But it's much like the people who move out here and hire a contractor for new construction, then tell everyone they are building a new house. They ain't doing shit but spending money, but everyone likes to title stuff.

 

[Super 91]

Apparently we can't build anything according the "experts" on this site. I can tell you this much, when I first started "putting arrows together", they sucked. I had flyers due to poor construction. After years of learning how to "build" or "assemble" as some might say, I have arrows that are incredibly more accurate than when I first started out. That requires me to actually machine some of my own parts at times. There are 100 different steps to make these arrows better than when I started out. True, I am not able to manufacture the carbon tubes and various other parts, but do you manufacture the parts of the motor you put together? I mean assembling a motor is just like ordering something from IKEA, no different.

According to the dictionary, this is the definition of "build".

verb
verb: build; 3rd person present: builds; past tense: built; past participle: built; gerund or present participle: building

1. 1.
   construct (something) by putting parts or material together.

 

[Super 91]

To the OP, I think there are factors in an arrow build that will make a huge difference in shooting in the wind. I totally believe smaller diameter shafts will drift less in the wind. I also know that heavier shafts will drift less because it's harder to move a heavier object that a lighter one. Higher profile vanes will move more than lower profile vanes. I am not convinced higher FOC shafts will stay on track better than a moderate FOC due to the tail of the higher FOC shafts being able to be manipulated easier due to the fulcrum effect. I have shot with guys who are shooting lighter standard shafts who drifted off target 2' at 80 yards while I only drifted 8" in the same wind. I am shooting GT Kintetics 200 spine with a GT trad stainless halfout up front for a TAW of 600 grains and about 12% FOC. Yeah, I might have a greater arch in my trajectory than they do, but my arrows tend to stay on course and as long as I account for that arch, I rarely have any issues hitting my target. The wind blowing me around at full draw is typically more of an issue than my arrow being moved a lot. On my 18% FOC arrows, I see the tail kicking sideways when the wind hits them at long distances. They still drift much less than a lighter shaft, but I think the tail kicking re-directs them somewhat, even with the point "pulling" the arrow more than a regular arrow.

Having your bow well in tune, having good form and tuning your arrows to your setup is priority. I also think if you shoot longer distances, having a decent stabilizer is very helpful. I like to run a 15" for 3D and run a slim 12" for my hunting setup. This helps keep the side to side "wiggle" down to a minimum which helps keep your left or right hits less dramatic.

 

[Lowg08]

I just have someone put mine together. For me. They are spined and and the whole nine. Never a failure.

 

[JNDEER]

Only way to know how and what affects the arrow drift is to test it. I live in a very windy area. Usually in the 15-20mph range. I have shot in a direct cross wind with no trees or houses to deflect the cross breeze. Total scientific test here. Was testing vanes and a three blazer cane compared to a 4 vane Q2i set up. The blazers constantly hit 4-6” off the Q2i due 93% to wind drift.

Conclusion. Vane set up plays a role in wind drift

 

[sndmn11]

Only way to know how and what affects the arrow drift is to test it. I live in a very windy area. Usually in the 15-20mph range. I have shot in a direct cross wind with no trees or houses to deflect the cross breeze. Total scientific test here. Was testing vanes and a three blazer cane compared to a 4 vane Q2i set up. The blazers constantly hit 4-6” off the Q2i due 93% to wind drift.

Conclusion. Vane set up plays a role in wind drift

The 3 blazers drifted more than the 4 q2i?

 

[Lowg08]

The 3 blazers drifted more than the 4 q2i?

I can’t answer for the other guys but I have used blazers and several other vane types. Just currently moved to low pro four fletch and they do seem to catch less wind than the blazers.

 

[sndmn11]

I can’t answer for the other guys but I have used blazers and several other vane types. Just currently moved to low pro four fletch and they do seem to catch less wind than the blazers.

The q2I I use are basically blazers; I think they are the raptor or predators.

I wonder if increased rotation means less wind drift.

 

[Lowg08]

The q2I I use are basically blazers; I think they are the raptor or predators.

I wonder if increased rotation means less wind drift.

The rotation can matter but too much can make it worse. The helical or offset when too much creates a parachute effect. Slowing the arrow allowing more cross wind effect. I use AAE hybrid at 2 degree right helical. I found a Levi Morgan article on fastest arrow set up so we put some together and tested it out. So far it’s right on point.