Arrow Comparison Thoughts & Question

[TX_Diver]

Built up 2 different arrows w/ 2 different configurations

Bow is an RX-3 Ultra, 30.5" DL @ 66lbs. 334 IBO. Tied nock points, D-loop, and Peep on the string.

Arrows are 300 Spine 29.25" Length - 50 gr brass HIT, 10gr Iron Will Collar, 100gr Point. Both .001 straightness
Easton Axis w/ 4 fletch AAE Max Stealth - 520 gr - 269fps
Easton Axis w/ 4 fletch Vanetec Swift 2.88 - 513 gr - 271 fps
Black Eagle Rampage w/ 4 fletch AAE Max Stealth - 462 gr - 288 fps
Black Eagle Rampage w/ 4 fletch Vanetec Swift 2.88 - 455 gr - 291 fps
all speeds based on https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/arrow-speed (can't speak to the reliability of that program so...

First day it's been warm enough to shoot outside today and I'm seeing a much larger difference at 40 yards than I anticipated between the two.

Rampage w/ Vanetecs
Had another next to bottom arrow but pulled before I remembered to take a pic.

Same POA with the Axis w/ Vanetecs

I've been shooting rampages the past few years and like them but the half-outs don't seem to spin true after a few months so whichever arrow I shoot I'll be using the HITs. Out of the box the Easton's seem to spin slightly better than the rampages but both seem to fly well.

Question 1
Is this a valid comparison of the trajectory between the two? I don't think 270 is too slow as I hunted with a bow that shot 260 a few years ago and killed an elk (last year shooting 290 I didn't kill anything). Obviously I'd sight in for one and develop a sight tape (MBG 3 pin slider) so it's not like I'm going to be estimating holds and trying to remember which arrow I'm shooting. Just interested in not having my pin gaps be huge and also not bottoming out my sight. I can shoot 120+ yards in my driveway so I'd like to not be having clearance issues at 70. Once hunting I'm sure that won't be a problem though.

Question 2
Anyone else that's shooting a collar find them to be a huge PITA to pull out of the rinehart targets? I hit the tube that runs through the insert and pulled an HIT out today. Going to be a crappy system if I have to dissect my target every few days to recover the insert and field point.

Few more pics for anyone who's interested. I weighed all the components and found both to be within the advertised range of 1 grain.

Cheers

 

[Topo_trekker]

Axis are for a fact more durable than the rampages no matter what collar system you use, both are good though. I also found them to be straighter along the whole shaft. Did you use a 24hr 2 part epoxy? If not that’s probably why they’re pulling out.

Trajectory seems like what it should be but I think you should throw on the broadheads you’re going to use and see what shoots best for you.


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[5MilesBack]

Those Vanetecs look like overkill with a 4-fletch.

 

[Topo_trekker]

Those Vanetecs look like overkill with a 4-fletch.

Could be. Depends what broadhead he shooting.


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[805Bowhunter]

The biggest issue I am always concerned about is what flies best with a broadhead. Arrow speed is secondary, to me, to flight. I use 280 fps as my "max". Instead of going over 280, I build a heavier setup. If you are worried about clearance, you could move your sight in. As for the collars, a lot of people swear by them, I personally dont care for them a ton. Ive never had any issues where Ive felt like I needed them or they have "saved" me. A lot of people do swear by them though so if it works for you, go for it.

I shoot 72lbs with a 29" draw and use a 300axis, 50 gr of brass, 4 fletch, wrap, 100 gr head and a Beiter nock. My setup comes in right at 515 and 280fps. I spent a lot of time testing it against a standard insert and the difference at 50 was about 6 inches. While the standard insert offered a flatter trajectory, smaller pin gaps etc, it didnt group as well and it was noticeable. The bottom line is that go with what flies the best for YOU and you are most confident in. What works best for one person could be a garbage setup for someone else. You're picking the best time of year to do all of this so good on you for being proactive. A lot of people wait until a week before season before they start asking these questions.

 

[Beendare]

All good weight arrows...

The problem with your test is you are starting the heavy arrow on a lower plane skewing the result.

To compare trajectories between different arrow weights its best to set you sight up for the heavier arrow....then using the same pin [say 40 yds] shoot both the light and the heavy arrow.

Hint; There won't be much difference with 50-60 gr


_____

 

[TX_Diver]

All good weight arrows...

The problem with your test is you are starting the heavy arrow on a lower plane skewing the result.

To compare trajectories between different arrow weights its best to set you sight up for the heavier arrow....then using the same pin [say 40 yds] shoot both the light and the heavy arrow.

Hint; There won't be much difference with 50-60 gr


_____

So get the axis hitting center of the target then keep same POA and shoot the rampages?

 

[dkime]

Run your numbers through a software like OT2 or archers advantage. There’s a bunch of free archery ballistic softwares online too, like it’s been said, you could probably shoot most of those arrows at the same target at a practical hunting distance and never be able to tell they were different in weight


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[TX_Diver]

Any of those available online? Just searched both but no results outside of the apps?

 

[dkime]

They’re apps that you have to purchase, I’ll run your specs and post your charts


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[As_west_as_it_gets]

Different nocks, different weights, vanes ect, will cause slight tuning variations. If I was doing the test, I would do an up-close paper tune on each arrow, to make sure the bow was pushing the arrows straight. One arrow might be slightly out of tune, giving you inaccurate results.

 

[TX_Diver]

Different nocks, different weights, vanes ect, will cause slight tuning variations. If I was doing the test, I would do an up-close paper tune on each arrow, to make sure the bow was pushing the arrows straight. One arrow might be slightly out of tune, giving you inaccurate results.

I'll probably shoot in the basement this weekend if the weather sucks. I'll shoot through paper and see what I'm getting.

 

[TX_Diver]

Few misc. updates.

1 - The vanetecs don't stick well for me. I fletched them onto the rampage using the loc-tite ultra control gel that seemed pretty popular on AT and onto the axis using the AAE primer pen and glue. Both were peeling up at the back and ultimately peeled off pretty easy.

2 - Leaning towards shooting the rampages. Will probably go to a 25 grain collar to add a bit of weight and drop a few fps which will hopefully help with tuning. With the 10 grain collar and a 125 gr. field point I seem to be grouping just as well as the 100 gr field points but the bow is noticeably quieter.

3 - My rest doesn't seem to be dropping fast enough. I was getting good tears but started to notice smudges on the bottom side of my bottom 2 vanes (shooting 4 fletch in an X configuration if you were to have the arrow nocked)

S&S archery was chasing this exact scenario with the same rest (virtus) and a hoyt (think it was an RX3 ultra but may have been an RX4). I've re-timed it and arrow flight looks a bit better but I'll swap it out for a limb driven rest this weekend and start over as I'm sold on the limb driven for now I think.

These are from before I re-timed it. Getting a slight right tear now so I'll update in a few days once I get the 25 grain collars in and also have a chance to play with the new (to me) rest. AAE Pro-Drop.

Cheers

 

[TX_Diver]

Lost another insert out of the Rampages yesterday. That's 2/6 from the rampages. No issues with the axis. Lost the first one when I hit the tubing inside a rinehart target, the other one came out just in the foam. Field points are Gold Tip EZ Pulls.

I used Brass Easton HIT inserts with the Easton 2 part epoxy that came with them. They sat 24 hours before I started shooting. Wondering if maybe the Rampages aren't a hair bigger than the axis ID. I was pretty light on the glue following both Easton and John Dudley's videos, will try a little more next time though. I'll continue to use the Easton glue or a 24 hour 2 part epoxy I have (devcon).

 

[Beendare]

So get the axis hitting center of the target then keep same POA and shoot the rampages?

No. Set your sight for the heavy arrow...so set your 40 yd pin dead on. Then go out to 40 and shoot the heavy and the light arrow together using your 40 yd [or whatever distance you set] pin.

This overlays the trajectories better and doesn't start the heavy arrow on a lower plane...it actually starts the lighter arrow on a higher plane...but this overlays better than the other way around.

What you will find doing that with a well tuned arrow; 50 grs more is an almost imperceptible, difference in trajectory at bowhunting distances. The calculators do us a disservice as their exaggerated trajectory charts show something completely different than in real world.

______

 

[TX_Diver]

No. Set your sight for the heavy arrow...so set your 40 yd pin dead on. Then go out to 40 and shoot the heavy and the light arrow together using your 40 yd [or whatever distance you set] pin.

This overlays the trajectories better and doesn't start the heavy arrow on a lower plane...it actually starts the lighter arrow on a higher plane...but this overlays better than the other way around.

What you will find doing that with a well tuned arrow; 50 grs more is an almost imperceptible, difference in trajectory at bowhunting distances. The calculators do us a disservice as their exaggerated trajectory charts show something completely different than in real world.

______

I did that and it helped a bit but still a noticeable difference. I was having clearance issues with a virtus rest though so at that point everything is suspect. Just switched rests out today for an AAE Pro drop so now I'm shooting through paper whenever the baby wakes up to establish a starting point again. Tomorrow is supposed to be nice out so should get back outside then.

Shooting outside yesterday I'd get vertical groups with the axis, and horizontal groups with the rampages... This stuff drives me nuts but I'm enjoying slowly learning a bit more about how this all works at least.