Arrow diameters, weight and speed

[SlickStickSlinger]

If I shoot 552 grain XTs at 200 fps and switch to 552 grain vap tkos, same vanes, will the fps be the same with shaft diameter change?
I ask because I want to make the switch but dont want to re-tune. Mostly because I dont have the tools to do it on my own, yet.

I should probably mention, I'm going to have to shorten the length of the vap tkos to get the overall weight within 5 grains. - ~ .5" the shaft (28" - 27.5")

The said fps is just a random number for reference.

 

[ZDR]

Great question. I have pondered the same so looking forward to the answers here.

 

[Brendan]

Diameter won't affect speed (all else equal), at least to the point you'll be able to notice. A smaller arrow will drift a little less in a crosswind though.

Problem with Micro Diameter arrows is crappy components, which is why I personally use only 5mm arrows.

Weight going up or down will affect speed.

Diameter changing can require small tuning changes (rest might need to be moved up or down)

Changing spine or arrow length can require tuning changes, but might not.

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

Problem with Micro Diameter arrows is crappy components, which is why I personally use only 5mm arrows.

I've been looking at the outset, insert type of thing Victory has going on thinking it looked pretty solid. Is there anything you know about components that I should be weary of?

 

[406unltd]

I have a hard time seeing any sort of difference even through a chrono at longer ranges. But even if it is faster it couldn’t be by much. Not to mention the fact that we cannot possibly shoot well enough to notice a small speed change. I hope a science nerd chimes in.

 

[Brendan]

I've been looking at the outset, insert type of thing Victory has going on thinking it looked pretty solid. Is there anything you know about components that I should be weary of?

You'll get different opinions on this, but I don't like any insert/outsert system personally. They stick out further in front of the shaft, which creates extra leverage for bending the insert or breaking the shaft on an impact. The extra junction and larger size makes bag targets a pain in the ass, which matters for me as that's what my range uses. And, although I haven't used Victory's, every one I've had has had issues keeping broadheads spinning true.

If I was going to use a micro diameter shaft, I'd probably use Iron Will Deep 6 HIT inserts, and Iron Will Deep 6 broadheads, with an Iron will Impact Collar for extra strength. That's what I use on on the 5mm arrows, but use Easton Brass HIT instead of the Iron Will.

I also like running a lighted nock, every one I've tried on a 4mm arrow has exploded within a couple shots so that's another reason I'm back to the Easton Axis and Black Eagle Rampage.

 

[jmez]

I screwed with different outsert systems for a year and a half trying to convince myself they weren't junk. I'm back to 5mm diameter shafts and won't use any sort of outsert system again.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[jmav58]

I guess my opinion differs from those guys above me on the insert/outsert system, but I've only used the Black Eagle Outserts on the X Impacts and Deep Impact shafts and really like them. But again, I've only used those outserts. They've stayed straight after a lot of shooting, hitting animals, pass throughs. I shoot a Realm X at 29" and 73# max. Again, just my opinion.

 

[roosiebull]

I hate 4mm shafts, never again. There is absolutely no practical gain to put up with the downsides of the components. I shot them last year, the BE outserts were the best for me (not the focos, those sucked) but best is very relative. The components are the weak link in 4mm shafts, the only system I would consider is the Valkyrie system, for 4mm shafts, it’s the only one that is really solid

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

Well, I can honestly say I am super greatful you said something. I never would have looked into it if not. There is at least a couple years worth of threads out there saying stick to .204 for varying reasons. I'll just upgrade to a similar arrow.
Thanks for saving me a huge expensive and potential hassle.

 

[Buffalomtn]

If you switch to a different diameter arrow you will have to adjust your rest height or nock point at a minimum as far as tuning is concerned. Also, just because two different brand/type of arrows say they have the same spine does not mean they are the same spine. That difference may or may not cause you to have make some additional adjustments to your tune.

 

[action.jackson]

The speed won’t change much as long as the fletchings are the same, and set at the same angle. The only additional drag would be the extra diameter in the arrow shaft but that’s pretty darn minimal.

Different arrows will probably tune slightly different because of the spine and length differences, but may be close enough that you can’t notice.

 

[Zac]

From my experience they will tune totally different. I have never found similar spines with different brands to react the same at all. Victory is a very unique shaft. Brent from Valkyrie uses an entirely different spine for his extreme FOC builds than with other companies. For example he will use a 340 Victory with 200 up front versus a 300 with the Black Eagle. This is due to the differences in resin used during the wrapping process. Those two shafts will look similar on a spine tester, yet react entirely differently. For what it's worth I would also stay far away from micros. I have shot every one of them and the only way I would ever use that type of shaft is with the Valkyrie system.

 

[Brendan]

Here's the thing about rated static spine: A 300 should be the same static spine between manufacturers, because it's a standardized measurement. Basically, suspend an arrow between two points 28 inches apart, put a standardized weight in the middle, and the arrow should deflect .300" inches. Depending on the quality of an arrow though, you will get better or worse consistency.

As you start cutting the arrow, putting in inserts, putting on broadheads, fletching, wraps, etc - that all changes the dynamic spine and what you'll see when shooting it through your specific bow.

 

[Buffalomtn]

Here's the thing about rated static spine: A 300 should be the same static spine between manufacturers, because it's a standardized measurement. Basically, suspend an arrow between two points 28 inches apart, put a standardized weight in the middle, and the arrow should deflect .300" inches. Depending on the quality of an arrow though, you will get better or worse consistency.

As you start cutting the arrow, putting in inserts, putting on broadheads, fletching, wraps, etc - that all changes the dynamic spine and what you'll see when shooting it through your specific bow.

Yet I have tested “300” spine on a RAM from different manufacturers and different models from the same manufacturer, and found “300” spine arrows that measure from 318 to 286. Labels don’t mean much, just because they are supposed to be 300 doesn’t mean that they are. I’m not talking about lack of consistency from one arrow to another of the same model from the same manufacture, this is the difference seen from arrow model/manufacturer to another that are sold as 300spine arrows.

 

[Brendan]

Yet I have tested “300” spine on a RAM from different manufacturers and different models from the same manufacturer, and found “300” spine arrows that measure from 318 to 286. Labels don’t mean much, just because they are supposed to be 300 doesn’t mean that they are. I’m not talking about lack of consistency from one arrow to another of the same model from the same manufacture, this is the difference seen from arrow model/manufacturer to another that are sold as 300spine arrows.

I have a Ram too, and have had better luck. But, really only shooting .001" arrows, Axis, Rampage right now. (I know that's straightness, but I think it carries over to spine)

One of the big reasons I only buy high end components is I generally haven't had to deal with the issues you get with some of the cheaper crap on the market. Another reason I've never had to nock tune an arrow...

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

What are .204 diameter arrows considered? To be honest I didmt even realize there was an in between XT .300 and micro diameter.
What has been said makes sense. I do composite work for a living. Standardizing the static makes sense from a consumer's understanding. Then the process and materials alter the dynamic.

 

[5MilesBack]

What are .204 diameter arrows considered? To be honest I didmt even realize there was an in between XT .300 and micro diameter.

The .204" ID arrows are called "small" diameter, whereas the .166" ID are "micro" diameter. I've stuck with the .204's for the past 12+ years.

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

The .204" ID arrows are called "small" diameter, whereas the .166" ID are "micro" diameter. I've stuck with the .204's for the past 12+ years.

That would make .300s the Lincoln log diameter.

 

[Whisky]

OP, I think you will be fine. Spin some broad heads on and shoot groups out to your max range, make any sight adjustments for POI, and if they group to your satisfaction, call her good for this season. After season I would go through your preferred tuning process with BH, BS and FP arrows.

Earlier this summer I bought some of the cheapest 6mm arrows I could find, for practice only. I was trying to match weight with my 5mm Axis hunting arrows. My hunting setup was pretty spendy with all IW components, and we were taking some stupid shots and losing/wrecking arrows. I wanted a cheap practice alternative. They were cut about 1" longer then my primary shaft, same spine, and used 175gr FPs to get the weights up front to match. Granted I have never shot a broad head on them, but with FP they group out to 90yds just fine with my primary hunting arrows. I was actually kind of surprised at the results.