Arrow footings, educate a young(ish) man.

[Rheron]

Hello friends. So I'm shooting black eagle vintage arrows 400spine 34" uncut. I have 150gr of point weight, 66" recurve 40# limbs at 28". My draw is 32". Now that my form is getting better my arrows are starting to show a weak spine during tuning. I believe I can cut an inch off to help stiffen up my arrows. That aside- been reading about arrow footings... and their potential to stiffen a weaker spine to some degree. First- is there a difference between footings and collars, they look the same to me. Second- Is cutting down the arrow a more preferred method over footings. And lastly if footings do work do any of you recommend a brand that would fit my arrow? I think O.D is .301 for the 400 spine black eagle vintage. Again thanks for your advice, I've been improving since talking to yall on here.
Ryan

 

[oldgoat]

I personally haven't seen normal length footings make very much difference in spine, you already have an insert in there around that length so it ain't doing much for spine! Cutting an inch off can! I wouldn't arbitrarily start with that amount though! You might look at Ethics Archery, they have adjustable weight insert/collar combos that if used full length could make a very real difference in spine and they sell a wide variety of sizes to fit most arrows. Using a collar or footing, I really think the only difference is the collar has the lip on the front, footings are generally made from an aluminum arrow of the right size. I prefer the Stainless Outsert collar from ethics on standard diameter arrows, aluminum works good on micro diameter. You are opening a whole new can of worms here changing inserts etc w and then potentially having to change broadhead weight at this time in the year if you are going to hunt, I'd just trim a quarter inch off at a time and see how it goes, you can also add weight to the back of the arrow to stiffen the dynamic spine, like switch out to a lighted nock and see if that helps if it's just a little weak. Also you can build out your strike plate a little, that allows for use of a weaker arrow.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Depending on the type of footing, you'll likely end up weakening your spine due to the extra weight up front. The footed portion of the shaft will be stiffer, but the middle of the shaft is where most of the flexure occurs during the shot and more weight on the front end causes more flexing in the middle. Add footing if you want to improve the structural strength of the front end, but I wouldn't count on it to stiffen your overall spine. Trim the shaft and/or decrease point weight if you need a stiffer spine.

Footing originally (in the wood arrow days) referred to a different species of wood glued to the front end that was stronger/denser than the wood used for the rear portion of the arrow. This technique made the front end structurally stronger without having to use the stronger/denser wood for the entire arrow. Nowadays footing is used more as a general term for anything intended to strengthen the front end of an arrow...could be an elongated internal insert of some kind or an external collar. In the early days of carbon arrows, it was a fairly common practice to fashion homemade external collars by cutting an aluminum shaft with an ID slightly larger than the carbon shaft's OD into short pieces and sliding them over the carbon. Most people don't feel the need to externally reinforce a standard diameter arrow like your BE Vintage, so factory made collars aren't very common in that size. Ethics makes the only .244-.246" collar that I know of.

 

[Rheron]

Appreciate both your responses. Think best plan of attack is just cut em down and add weight later if needed. For something as simple as a stick and string there sure are a lot of rabbit holes to go down.
Ryan

 

[oldgoat]

Depending on the type of footing, you'll likely end up weakening your spine due to the extra weight up front. The footed portion of the shaft will be stiffer, but the middle of the shaft is where most of the flexure occurs during the shot and more weight on the front end causes more flexing in the middle. Add footing if you want to improve the structural strength of the front end, but I wouldn't count on it to stiffen your overall spine. Trim the shaft and/or decrease point weight if you need a stiffer spine.

Footing originally (in the wood arrow days) referred to a different species of wood glued to the front end that was stronger/denser than the wood used for the rear portion of the arrow. This technique made the front end structurally stronger without having to use the stronger/denser wood for the entire arrow. Nowadays footing is used more as a general term for anything intended to strengthen the front end of an arrow...could be an elongated internal insert of some kind or an external collar. In the early days of carbon arrows, it was a fairly common practice to fashion homemade external collars by cutting an aluminum shaft with an ID slightly larger than the carbon shaft's OD into short pieces and sliding them over the carbon. Most people don't feel the need to externally reinforce a standard diameter arrow like your BE Vintage, so factory made collars aren't very common in that size. Ethics makes the only .244-.246" collar that I know of.

Ethics makes a wide variety these days, I use them on my micro and the next size up from that, think they are .204 but don't quote me on that. Here is a link to what's available that fit the BE Vintage.

Products

American-made archery components - outserts, field points, inserts, nock bushings, broadhead adapters, footers, adjustable products, made in aluminum and stainless steel.

ethicsarchery.com

 

[Rheron]

Old goat you are the man! Thank you. Not too worried about swapping components this time of year, already hanged my tag on a big beautiful cow elk. On the scoreboard with the stickbow!

 

[oldgoat]

Old goat you are the man! Thank you. Not too worried about swapping components this time of year, already hanged my tag on a big beautiful cow elk. On the scoreboard with the stickbow!

Congrats! I hunted a couple hours yesterday, heard 2 bugles right at sundown, but they wouldn't come play. Have to work next 3 nights then I have 12 days to try some more!

 

[Rheron]

Goodluck to you my friend. Appreciate all the insight.
Ryan

 

[sneaky]

There's a chart, I think it's been posted on here before, that shows what size aluminum arrows will make the correct footer for your carbons. Lot cheaper than buying them, and you can make them whatever length you want. If you do a Google search you should be able to find it pretty quick.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[oldgoat]

There's a chart, I think it's been posted on here before, that shows what size aluminum arrows will make the correct footer for your carbons. Lot cheaper than buying them, and you can make them whatever length you want. If you do a Google search you should be able to find it pretty quick.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

If it's the list I've seen, it's pretty old and doesn't include a lot of current arrow models and unless you have a lot of aluminum arrows laying around of various sizes it can be pretty frustrating!

 

[Sapcut]

Now that my form is getting better my arrows are starting to show a weak spine during tuning. I believe I can cut an inch off to help stiffen up my arrows. That aside- been reading about arrow footings... and their potential to stiffen a weaker spine to some degree.

If you are bareshaft tuning I suggest keeping them just a tad weak because they will stiffen up just a bit with the fletching. If showing weak with fletching then you may want to cut a bit off if you have the room. Aluminum arrow footings will begin to have a stiffening affect on your arrow when the footing is about 2.5-3" long. Usually anything shorter will not have an affect unless maybe your arrow was already right on the edge of the spine window to begin with, if that makes sense.

Even though this is more than you want to know.....I personally am a big proponent of building the best hunting arrow I can to blow up anything I shoot. So footings are a major ingredient in my arrow recipe due to several benefits they offer. The footings do significantly increase the strength of the arrow when hitting big bone, for example, which is one obvious benefit. Also, I like to create as much FOC as possible and use 6-8" footings. The 100 grains of footing weight added to the front stiffens the shaft but counteracting any weakening affect the 100 grains would have created. Result being higher FOC after adding up front weight to the same spine shaft. One of the biggest benefits of a longer footing and 33+% FOC is creating a much larger window for arrow tuning. What I mean is I can put a 300 grain Tuffhead on the front creating a 910 arrow that shoots perfectly. I can then replace it with a 190 grain Meathead creating a 800 grain arrow that also shoots perfectly. Options are created based on my specific purpose or animal I am hunting. That is the benefits of arrow footings and very high FOC.

And lastly if footings do work do any of you recommend a brand that would fit my arrow? I think O.D is .301 for the 400 spine black eagle vintage. Again thanks for your advice, I've been improving since talking to yall on here.
Ryan

Sirius Archery recently bought Tuffhead broadheads and now offer for sale 12 different size aluminum footings that are 1.5" long. Full disclosure.....I make and sell them to Sirius Archery. I have made them for Tuffhead for years and now make and sell to Sirius Archery, Big Jim Bows and Kustom King Archery. So since you asked, you can go to any of those sites and choose the ID size based on your OD of .301. Size #11 should work for you.

 

[Wrench]

I foot my GT trad 500's with a 2219 that I prt off in the lathe. They are 36grs and about 1.25" long.

They will weaken the shaft a bit. I normally destroy 6 arrows during elk season shooting grouse and stumps. Typically all die because the insert mushrooms the end.

I just returned from 28 days in the field and came home with the same arrow I left with. Footing saved me. I broke or lost 4 or 5 nocks and had to wrap and glue the nock end of my shaft....but it lived through all of that abuse.

An inch is about 8x more than I would start with for tuning.

 

[Btaylor]

Also keep in mind you affect the the dynamic spine by making adjustments at the rear of the arrow as well. Adding weight by switching to trad vanes from feathers, 3 fletch to 4 fletch, switching to a lighted nock if shooting a standard nock, etc. All those things will add weight to the back of the shaft and will stiffen the dynamic spine of the arrow. For example an option might be to take a 1/4" off the rear of the shaft and add a lighted nock. Lots of options, just make notes if you start changing up stuff. Record the additions and subtractions of weight related to the changes from your starting point and how those changes influence tune. It will help down the road to have those notes.

 

[TaterTot]

I'm a big fan of the ethics archery inserts and footings. They will cost more than a diy approach but they fit perfect and are very well made.