Arrow Lethality - Shoot Thru Really Ideal??

[Billy Goat]

How can this post have 4 pages, when the short answer is, “Don’t overthink it”

Because it isn't hunting season yet.

Everyone is counting down.

 

[406unltd]

It’s both cutting and energy transfer in archery. You are transferring energy from the bow to the arrow and from the arrow to the body via blades and cutting. A 2” cut going through an animal 10” does the same as a 1” cut at 20”. If your getting passthroughs with a 1 1/8” cut would it make more sense to switch to a 1 3/4” cut if your still getting a pass through? If your not pushing the biggest head you can through an animal your wasting energy burying your arrow in the ground behind them.

Personally I’ve always gotten pass through shots on deer and elk, I always had poor blood trails with fixed heads. I switched to a Trypan and get over 2” holes that go all the way through an elk and out the other side. They also fly very well and are super durable, I defiently feel like I am taking more advantage of my bows energy than I would be if I shot my IW S100’s because they would just zip through with very little damage.

Also I’ve seen better blood from arrows sticking in holes and not allowing them to close than pass through shots with sharp heads. While I agree there isn’t as much reaction with a COC head they normally walk off and can walk a ways before laying down or falling over. The bull I killed last fall watched me shoot him in the wide open sage with a Trypan. I hit low but blew a almost 3” hole all the way through him, blood was running out like a hose and he literally walked 20 yards and laid down as his 30 cows ran off, if I made that same shot with a COC head would have ran off and out of the drainage with all of those cows.

Because we don’t build arrows for perfect shot placements every time. We build them for when things get complicated and the hit ends up being less than ideal thanks to one of the numerous wrenches that can be thrown into a shot on an animal. Nobody hits them perfect every single shot, and I need the sharpest, and most penetrating option I can put together. I need this because those wrenches come in the form of bone, and or stem to stern type hits that will likely require that extra power that would have otherwise ended with the arrow 6-8” in the dirt after a pass through in a perfect kill sequence.

 

[cusecat04]

Because we don’t build arrows for perfect shot placements every time. We build them for when things get complicated and the hit ends up being less than ideal thanks to one of the numerous wrenches that can be thrown into a shot on an animal. ...

This is it right here.
There is the plan and then there is reality.
As an engineer I look at this as design margin. You never design for the unicorn situation.
Can it work/possibly have a benefit in certain scenarios? sure, it can be argued.
Is it a good starting position, with margin for error?
nah.

 

[87TT]

What are a couple of these heads of which you speak? I'm a new archer here. Thanks!

Kudupoints also

 

[Felix40]

You shoot a stick bow.

That still doesn’t work. I get two holes on pretty much everything with my recurve.

With a compound I think it’s being overlooked how little it takes to get a pass through. I’m not so sure that it’s everyone’s goal or if it’s just almost unavoidable with a decent setup.

 

[nphunter]

Because we don’t build arrows for perfect shot placements every time. We build them for when things get complicated and the hit ends up being less than ideal thanks to one of the numerous wrenches that can be thrown into a shot on an animal. Nobody hits them perfect every single shot, and I need the sharpest, and most penetrating option I can put together. I need this because those wrenches come in the form of bone, and or stem to stern type hits that will likely require that extra power that would have otherwise ended with the arrow 6-8” in the dirt after a pass through in a perfect kill sequence.

I shot a Trypan through the front shoulder, the top of two ribs, through the wind pipe, both lungs and burried it in the bottom of the back of the rib cage last fall on a follow up shot on a bedded mature bull. Slightly bent the blade tips on the head


Here’s a picture of the entrance hole, you can see the top of the shoulder blade right above my fingers. I have zero concerns shooting this setup any not place it hits, don’t think it will go through the shoulder joint of an elk but I don’t think any arrow on the planet will reliably do that and to think one will is foolish.



I also don’t build arrow based on unicorn shots, I’ve had not so perfect shots, you stick a tiny COC head through the guts of an animal odds are you will never see it again, especially a bull with a herd of cows. You put a giant hole all the way through them they will not go far, the odds of a gut shot are way higher that hitting a shoulder joint, the back of the lungs to the rear of an elk is a 4 foot area, the shoulder joint that most likely won’t be shot through anyway is a 4” area. I guess it’s perspective but I defiantly feel I’m going better prepared for a poor shot than someone with a 1 1/8” COC head. I also am shooting a 500gr arrow at 280fps, I’ve killed elk with 330gr arrows with chisel tip 3 blade heads with a complete pass through. I’m not building arrows based off of people’s opinions on the internet but to align with what has worked killing animals in the past and where I have had shortfalls. For me that’s, poor blood trails and tiny holes, sure they’ve mostly worked out but it’s sure stressfull following tiny blood trails until you walk up on a dead elk. The only elk

I’ve only hit one in the shoulder socket and that was with a slick trick at 20 yards out of a Hoyt CST at 67lbs, i have a picture of that bull two years later. I’ve lost two deer over the years, both were hit too far back and both would have been recovered had I been shooting a larger cutting head where they were bleeding well or dragging guts.

In the end I guess we all have to do what we feel is best for us based off of our experience,

 

[406unltd]

I shot a Trypan through the front shoulder, the top of two ribs, through the wind pipe, both lungs and burried it in the bottom of the back of the rib cage last fall on a follow up shot on a bedded mature bull. Slightly bent the blade tips on the head


Here’s a picture of the entrance hole, you can see the top of the shoulder blade right above my fingers. I have zero concerns shooting this setup any not place it hits, don’t think it will go through the shoulder joint of an elk but I don’t think any arrow on the planet will reliably do that and to think one will is foolish.

View attachment 196120

I also don’t build arrow based on unicorn shots, I’ve had not so perfect shots, you stick a tiny COC head through the guts of an animal odds are you will never see it again, especially a bull with a herd of cows. You put a giant hole all the way through them they will not go far, the odds of a gut shot are way higher that hitting a shoulder joint, the back of the lungs to the rear of an elk is a 4 foot area, the shoulder joint that most likely won’t be shot through anyway is a 4” area. I guess it’s perspective but I defiantly feel I’m going better prepared for a poor shot than someone with a 1 1/8” COC head. I also am shooting a 500gr arrow at 280fps, I’ve killed elk with 330gr arrows with chisel tip 3 blade heads with a complete pass through. I’m not building arrows based off of people’s opinions on the internet but to align with what has worked killing animals in the past and where I have had shortfalls. For me that’s, poor blood trails and tiny holes, sure they’ve mostly worked out but it’s sure stressfull following tiny blood trails until you walk up on a dead elk. The only elk

I’ve only hit one in the shoulder socket and that was with a slick trick at 20 yards out of a Hoyt CST at 67lbs, i have a picture of that bull two years later. I’ve lost two deer over the years, both were hit too far back and both would have been recovered had I been shooting a larger cutting head where they were bleeding well or dragging guts.

In the end I guess we all have to do what we feel is best for us based off of our experience,

Oh I’m not criticizing the things that you do to take an animal down. We all pull from our experience and that is what gets us from season to season with confidence in our setups. The truth is though that a lot of us have had similar setups like yours fail which leads us down a different path. I also could shoot a giant cut head compared to what I currently run. Right now I’m 555 @275 with a 31” draw. I choose tough fixed heads like the majority for obvious reasons/ past issues. Confidence is the key and I’d never take that away from anyone. Unfortunately a lot of people can’t use a setup like yours and have the same outcome when they mimic it because they don’t have the same ability under pressure and the horse power you do to still get the job done. We all come in different sizes, ability, and experience level and I’d say most hunters would be better served by a system with less things that can go wrong. This points to a fixed head of one type or another depending on the individual and their setup. A smaller percentage is capable of using your setup with great longterm success and that is why I think we see so many more not using mech. Again I’m not aiming to offend and would gladly hunt with you even though you have mechs in your quiver

 

[Sled]

I still shoot the t3 mechanical and the updated dead meat. They are cut on contact, so if they ever fail to open you still get the sharp side of a broadhead. When they do open they put two pretty good holes in them.

Part of my reasoning is the ability to find good arrow flight with field points and not have to retune for hunting season. You can call me lazy but it works for me.



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