Arrow rotational energy

[Billy Goat]

When you notice this difference in rotating nocks, is it with field points or broadheads only?

I do it with new shafts before I ever Fletch them. I get them cut and ready to go other than the fletching, then shoot them until I get the same impact point at 20-25 yards. If they are going off from the others I keep rotating the nick until they line up.


I have used it on fletched arrows before, if your arrows are labeled and one is always hitting to the outside of your group, or outside of the others rotating the nock a lot of times can bring it in. Might be something that doesn't show with fieldpoints, then you put broadheads on and it's flying wide, twist the nock a little assuming it won't give you fletching contact issues.


Doing it from the jump with no fletching really makes it shine. A lot of times I load the point weight up more than I intend to have on it just to push the spine a little, try to get it to really show it's weakness/recovery.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I do it with new shafts before I ever Fletch them. I get them cut and ready to go other than the fletching, then shoot them until I get the same impact point at 20-25 yards. If they are going off from the others I keep rotating the nick until they line up.


I have used it on fletched arrows before, if your arrows are labeled and one is always hitting to the outside of your group, or outside of the others rotating the nock a lot of times can bring it in. Might be something that doesn't show with fieldpoints, then you put broadheads on and it's flying wide, twist the nock a little assuming it won't give you fletching contact issues.


Doing it from the jump with no fletching really makes it shine. A lot of times I load the point weight up more than I intend to have on it just to push the spine a little, try to get it to really show it's weakness/recovery.

Since are using super straight arrows, why do you think the nock orientation is making a difference?

 

[MattB]

This is not correct. There is no "Spline" in archery, only "Spine" - coming from stiffness, or backbone. Don't listen to that garbage on ArcheryTalk.

Spline and references to string "stretch" are pet peeves of mine. Splines are located on the ends of axle shafts and string stretch (temporary/recoverable elongation) hasn't been a consideration since technology obviated dacron string material. Creep (permanent elongation) is the relevant description.

 

[Billy Goat]

Since are using super straight arrows, why do you think the nock orientation is making a difference?

Because arrows don't have a perfectly consistent spine, when the arrow is launched it causes the arrow to bend. I believe that rotating the nock you get the arrows to bend in the same direction in relation to the string/bow every time with every arrow. If that makes sense the way I explained it. Trying to make the arrows recover the same way within a group of arrows that have inconsistency to each one, they might all be straight, but they don't all have the exact same spine, and the spine isn't exactly the same all the way around the arrow, tho they are really close anymore.

Aluminum is very consistent, why carbon wrapped aluminum was the thing for target arrows for a good while.

 

[Billy Goat]

All y'all technical people. Spline is a part of an arrow, just not something that's frequently used anymore. I knew I'd heard of it. Get to building arrows, the really old kind.


Spline is the reinforcement slice, of another material, in the nock end of an arrow.

 

[Brendan]

I never could rotate my stock ram tester well enough to get good enough reading with the weight to determine weak side so I just use it for runout. I cheat some on runout too as 28" standard on runout doesnt do me much good on 29.5" arrows.

You can get upgraded bearings for the weight on the Ram - they do help. Would have to see if I can remember where I got them.

 

[Brendan]

Since are using super straight arrows, why do you think the nock orientation is making a difference?

Because arrows don't have a perfectly consistent spine, when the arrow is launched it causes the arrow to bend. I believe that rotating the nock you get the arrows to bend in the same direction in relation to the string/bow every time with every arrow. If that makes sense the way I explained it. Trying to make the arrows recover the same way within a group of arrows that have inconsistency to each one, they might all be straight, but they don't all have the exact same spine, and the spine isn't exactly the same all the way around the arrow, tho they are really close anymore.

Aluminum is very consistent, why carbon wrapped aluminum was the thing for target arrows for a good while.

agree with this.

If you put an arrow on a Spine Tester, and rotate it through 360 degrees, you don't just see .300" all the way around - it varies. Usually what you'll do is mark the stiffest point on an arrow, and then fletch them so that point is in the same place - vertical with your cock fletch for example.

If you really wanted to test, you could test an arrow like they test the shafts for golf clubs with a frequency analyzer. Basically, put a heavy weight on the end, pull the weight and let is oscillate while measuring the frequency of oscillation. The weight tends to find a certain plane, and that's what spine testing is trying to estimate.

Shooting bare shafts and nock tuning avoids all the pre-testing, and just focuses on how the arrow is performing out of your bow which is what matters anyways. It basically gets the arrows flexing and reacting as consistently as possible when shot out of the bow

 

[Zac]

agree with this.

If you put an arrow on a Spine Tester, and rotate it through 360 degrees, you don't just see .300" all the way around - it varies. Usually what you'll do is mark the stiffest point on an arrow, and then fletch them so that point is in the same place - vertical with your cock fletch for example.

If you really wanted to test, you could test an arrow like they test the shafts for golf clubs with a frequency analyzer. Basically, put a heavy weight on the end, pull the weight and let is oscillate while measuring the frequency of oscillation. The weight tends to find a certain plane, and that's what spine testing is trying to estimate.

Shooting bare shafts and nock tuning avoids all the pre-testing, and just focuses on how the arrow is performing out of your bow which is what matters anyways. It basically gets the arrows flexing and reacting as consistently as possible when shot out of the bow

I've heard this method is how Victory finds their spine line. If so it is total bullshit.

 

[Brendan]

I've heard this method is how Victory finds their spine line. If so it is total bullshit.

It's better than nothing, but isn't perfect. The "stiff spine" you find on a Ram isn't necessarily going to equate exactly how an arrow flexes. But, honestly I do this with all my arrows because I have the Ram and it takes no time at all. I don't know if I've ever had to nock turn an arrow.

Frequency analyzer and looking at stiff/weak vs neutral planes would be the right way to do it, but honestly at that point you're better off just buying a hooter shooter and shooting all your bare shafts.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Because arrows don't have a perfectly consistent spine, when the arrow is launched it causes the arrow to bend. I believe that rotating the nock you get the arrows to bend in the same direction in relation to the string/bow every time with every arrow. If that makes sense the way I explained it. Trying to make the arrows recover the same way within a group of arrows that have inconsistency to each one, they might all be straight, but they don't all have the exact same spine, and the spine isn't exactly the same all the way around the arrow, tho they are really close anymore.

Aluminum is very consistent, why carbon wrapped aluminum was the thing for target arrows for a good while.

Interesting. Your explanation does make sense.
I wonder why I’ve never noticed any variation in my accuracy all these years, even though I’ve shot the 0.006 stuff?

 

[Billy Goat]

Interesting. Your explanation does make sense.
I wonder why I’ve never noticed any variation in my accuracy all these years, even though I’ve shot the 0.006 stuff?

Variables.

Either you and I have different standards for accuracy, could be I'm shooting an arrow a fair amount faster, your not shooting large coc fixed heads. Those are where I start my guesses at.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Variables.

Either you and I have different standards for accuracy, could be I'm shooting an arrow a fair amount faster, your not shooting large coc fixed heads. Those are where I start my guesses at.

This is what I usually get at 50 yds. Not the best, but it’s good enough for me.
Probably so. I’ve always shot Thunderhead 100s since I started bowhunting.

 

[Billy Goat]

This is what I usually get at 50 yds. Not the best, but it’s good enough for me.
Probably so. I’ve always shot Thunderhead 100s since I started bowhunting. View attachment 219915

You pushing or over 300fps?

 

[N2TRKYS]

You pushing or over 300fps?

No. Right now I’m anywhere from 288 to 265, depending on what weight(406gr to 480gr) I’m shooting. They all have the same accuracy, though. I’m trying to decide which one works best for me, trajectory wise.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I was testing out some new vanes today(q2i fusions 2.1”). A 10 mph cross wind probably wasn’t the best to test them in. Today was a field point only day, but it definitely opened up at 50 yds. It was probably me, but you gotta blame something else, right?

 

[Billy Goat]

No. Right now I’m anywhere from 288 to 265, depending on what weight(406gr to 480gr) I’m shooting. They all have the same accuracy, though. I’m trying to decide which one works best for me, trajectory wise.

I mean that's damn good shooting at 50 yards. I don't actually shoot groups til 60 or 70 usually, get tired of refletching arrows and I can shoot a Vegas face or 5 spot and keep track of impacts.

I have found that around 295-300fps you need to be on your game with broadhead tuning. Get past 310 and it's that much harder again. Bow I'm running around 285 fps has been super easy.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I mean that's damn good shooting at 50 yards. I don't actually shoot groups til 60 or 70 usually, get tired of refletching arrows and I can shoot a Vegas face or 5 spot and keep track of impacts.

I have found that around 295-300fps you need to be on your game with broadhead tuning. Get past 310 and it's that much harder again. Bow I'm running around 285 fps has been super easy.

I normally don’t shoot groups with any point cause of busting nocks and shooting holes in vanes. However, some folks want to see it for proof. Idk, I don’t get into all that tuning stuff. I just like to go out and shoot bucks.

 

[Zac]

This is what I usually get at 50 yds. Not the best, but it’s good enough for me.
Probably so. I’ve always shot Thunderhead 100s since I started bowhunting. View attachment 219915

I would be very happy with those groups. That is awesome shooting.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I would be very happy with those groups. That is awesome shooting.

Thanks, Zac.

 

[justin davis]

What makes the difference of arrows natural spin?

Ive heard the way the string was twisted or how the serving was wrapped. Anyone know?