Arrow Spine Question

TOR

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I am working on a new arrow build and would like some opinions on spine...

Bow: Mathews Triax, 70lb, 28" DL

Arrows:
- Gold Tip Hunter Pro
- 28" Length
- 100 grain brass inserts
- Max hunter vanes (3) w/ 2 degree offset
- 100 grain head

If my math is right this should get me to right around 450 grains total, maybe a bit more.

Is 300 spine the right choice here? Is there something you'd suggest changing with this setup?

Second, what fletching jig would you recommend? I'd like to fletch arrows myself and get away from the 0 offset blazers so I can experiment.
 

doncarpenter

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Without running the numbers, my first thought is that's quite a bit of up front weight and your arrow seems longer than it has to be. I would be willing to wager that your arrow is sticking past your hand about an inch.

I would suggest shortening your arrow about an inch and a half to stiffen the spine for the point weight.

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TOR

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Jumped outside to check it out real quick, the end of the arrow (carbon, not head) is directly above the end of the shelf.
 

doncarpenter

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Ok, that actually makes sense, Mathews always runs about a half in long. I personally prefer to have my arrow shaft end right over the middle of the shelf. Do you have the ability to cut yourself, or are you ordering the arrows?


For a jig, I like bitzenberger.

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TOR

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I don’t have an arrow saw. I’d order a dozen and have them cut/fletched - unless I buy a jig of course. I’m running FMJs right now and looking to try something new and add a bit more weight up front. The weight up front makes “spine selector” charts confusing.
 

Mighty Mouse

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300 spine is borderline weak, but I bet it would still shoot fine. You should have room to trim off at least an inch and stiffen the arrow a bit. Someone will likely be along shortly to run your setup through Pinwheel or Archer's Advantage.

If you want 200 gn total up front, I'd suggest getting there with a 50 gn insert plus 50 gn of weight screws (Gold Tip FACT or similar) so you can easily reduce front end weight if your arrow does prove to be weak or if you later decide you want a little more speed. BTW I came up with about 490 gn total arrow weight: (28" shaft × 9.3 gpi) + (200 gn combined head/insert) + (20 gn fletching) + (10 gn nock).

If you're building these arrows yourself, I'd also suggest initially securing your inserts with heat reversible glue ("hot melt") instead of epoxy so you can tinker with different inserts in the same shaft. Once you've settled on a particular insert, you can always switch to epoxy if you want.

I use a Bitzenburger fletching jig. It's slow (one vane at a time) but durable and versatile. It's capable of left or right offset/helical (depending on which clamp(s) you choose) in 3×120°, 4×90° or 4x75°/105° configurations.
 
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TOR

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All good points. I’ve played with the FACT weights in prior arrows, might be worth doing it again for experimentation sake.

GT Hunter Pros don’t seem to come in 250 spine. I’d like to run an arrow with an insert, not outsert.

Thanks a ton for the recommendations
 

Billy Goat

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Since you are clearly looking to chase foc, the BE Carnivore is a shaft that gives you the spine you need with a lighter GPI.


I like the 60 grain top hat insert in that shaft size, it is SS so it's pretty durable. You can also use 125 heads, gives a little more meat on the head.

I think the fact weight is a good idea tho till you are certain what you want to do.
 

DiabeticKripple

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You should be good. Im shooting a very similiar setup and they shoot great.

Bow: Bowtech Carbon Icon, 70lb, 29" DL

Arrows:
- Victory VAP TKO 300 spine
- 28.5" Length
- 110 grain ethics inserts
- Max hunter vanes (3) w/ 2 degree offset
- 100 grain head

TAW 525gr.
 
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TOR

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Since you are clearly looking to chase foc, the BE Carnivore is a shaft that gives you the spine you need with a lighter GPI.


I like the 60 grain top hat insert in that shaft size, it is SS so it's pretty durable. You can also use 125 heads, gives a little more meat on the head.

I think the fact weight is a good idea tho till you are certain what you want to do.
I will check our Black Eagle, never owned any but I know they’ve got a great reputation.
 

Creed28

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Mathews vxr, 28dl 70lbs
28” gold tip pro hunter 300 spine, blazer vanes
100 gr gt fact system weights
100gr exodus full Broadhead
I like the fact system cause u can change weights, went from a 468gr arrow to 517gr, shoots great to 60yds with field points. Haven’t tried the broadheads yet. But will be starting on them this weekend
 

ScottP

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Since you are clearly looking to chase foc, the BE Carnivore is a shaft that gives you the spine you need with a lighter GPI.


I like the 60 grain top hat insert in that shaft size, it is SS so it's pretty durable. You can also use 125 heads, gives a little more meat on the head.

I think the fact weight is a good idea tho till you are certain what you want to do.
I shoot a similar arrow length and draw weight. I rolled the dice with the 250 carnivores Vs 300. I shot them with various weight up front and 250gr of ethics and point weight seemed to be the sweet spot. It’s slower than I’d like but can’t argue with good flight. This is for an elk setup.
 
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TOR

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Thanks for all the replies guys. I am not really “chasing FOC”, I’m trying to move from a standard “whitetail” arrow to something I can feel confident shooting an elk with. Something other than off the shelf, pre fletched arrow with a 100 grain tip screwed on. I fully understand speed will be reduced.

For the guys running the fact weights, have you had any issues with them? I didn’t like the idea of a threaded weight where I couldn’t see it in a hunting situation. I might be creating a problem where one doesn’t exist.
 

Billy Goat

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I shoot a similar arrow length and draw weight. I rolled the dice with the 250 carnivores Vs 300. I shot them with various weight up front and 250gr of ethics and point weight seemed to be the sweet spot. It’s slower than I’d like but can’t argue with good flight. This is for an elk setup.

I have a few of the 250 carnivores around. At that spine they are pretty solid arrows. I don't have experience with them in lighter spine.
 

Billy Goat

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Thanks for all the replies guys. I am not really “chasing FOC”, I’m trying to move from a standard “whitetail” arrow to something I can feel confident shooting an elk with. Something other than off the shelf, pre fletched arrow with a 100 grain tip screwed on. I fully understand speed will be reduced.

For the guys running the fact weights, have you had any issues with them? I didn’t like the idea of a threaded weight where I couldn’t see it in a hunting situation. I might be creating a problem where one doesn’t exist.


Put a little loc-tite on your fact weight.


And I have seen plenty of those standard "whitetail" arrows kill elk. I have owned a lot of them.

Nothing wrong with playing with things, nothing ventured, nothing gained. But don't think that you need to have certain numbers. You need good arrow flight and a good broadhead, it's pretty simple after that.
 
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TOR

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Put a little loc-tite on your fact weight.
And I have seen plenty of those standard "whitetail" arrows kill elk. I have owned a lot of them.

Nothing wrong with playing with things, nothing ventured, nothing gained. But don't think that you need to have certain numbers. You need good arrow flight and a good broadhead, it's pretty simple after that
Put a little loc-tite on your fact weight.


And I have seen plenty of those standard "whitetail" arrows kill elk. I have owned a lot of them.

Nothing wrong with playing with things, nothing ventured, nothing gained. But don't think that you need to have certain numbers. You need good arrow flight and a good broadhead, it's pretty simple after that.

loc-tite, of course, hadn’t thought of that. I have a collection (way too many) of arrows I can always go back to if my experimenting fails.
 

Billy Goat

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Put a little loc-tite on your fact weight.


loc-tite, of course, hadn’t thought of that. I have a collection (way too many) of arrows I can always go back to if my experimenting fails.

I'm sure I can challenge your collection combined with a few others.


I have some 250 carnivores around 28" if you want to pay the shipping to try them. Don't know if it's worth it or not, cheaper than a dozen. Be a lot easier if you were closer.
 

Mighty Mouse

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For the guys running the fact weights, have you had any issues with them? I didn’t like the idea of a threaded weight where I couldn’t see it in a hunting situation. I might be creating a problem where one doesn’t exist.
I'm using a different style of weight screw now (non-FACT), but I never had any trouble with FACT weights when I did use them. Out of an abundance of caution (probably unnecessary), I always put a dab of purple "low strength" Loctite on the threads of the weight screws.
 
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TOR

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I appreciate the offer but I’m sure I will find the right combo. If I must add to the collection, so be it!
I'm sure I can challenge your collection combined with a few others.


I have some 250 carnivores around 28" if you want to pay the shipping to try them. Don't know if it's worth it or not, cheaper than a dozen. Be a lot easier if you were closer.
 
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