Arrow Straightness

[ontarget7]

This is really my point, it's not like we're comparing a Kifaru pack with a Kelty (or a Subaru Legacy with a Ferrari for that matter), we're comparing two Kifaru's built slightly different. We don't demand that all the packs grade out and then pay twice as much for the perfect ones versus the ones with stitching that was slightly off center, do we? We get wound up on arrows because they have numbers on them and one of them is 6x the other and think "Holy crap, they must be junk" without considering what they actually mean in real world measurements. It's literally a hair's width on something that we induce spin to negate any irregularities, and most of the time are hand built and "eyeballed" for symmetry...

I shot .001 for 10 years thinking I had to have them and that I could tell the difference. I started shooting .003s and now .006s because I realized that before when I'd shoot .006s and I'd have a flier I'd blame the arrow. But when I'd have a flier with .001s I knew it was me. My groups are the same. It's me. Just now I have an extra $50 in my pocket to spend on other gear. Save your money from the "What If" Fairy and spend it where it matters.

The spine tolerance is the single biggest reason I shoot the .001's. Grant it, I want the arrow as straight as possible as well when it comes time for broadheads. Sure makes true arrow flight much easier down range.

 

[realunlucky]

You want repetition and tighter tolerances make that more predictable. Ive never been able to get a dozen 003 arrows to shoot broadheads without one or two flyers I do not have those same issues with pro's. Guess with all the variables its hard to say but if the cheaper ones spin and fly true than in enjoy the savings I guess I just don't have that luck

 

[TooFarEast]

I will worry about arrow straightness when I know my anchor, form, aim, and release is within .001 of an inch of consistency each time...

 

[Rent Outdoor Gear]

This topic is a bit more complex than it seems on the surface. I worked with Easton engineers and discussed all of this at length. They have a 1500 pound shooting machine in an indoor test lane that's 90 meters. I've used it personally.

Straightness matters. The average shooter may not notice it when shooting field points, but a good shooter will definitely see it if he's shooting fixed blade broadheads.

The location and type of straightness flaw has a lot to do with how much it affects the accuracy. A tail section that's out of alignment is much more of a problem than if the point is a little bent for field points for instance.

Spine consistency is a much bigger factor in group size than straightness. Many carbon shafts have a lot of variance radially when flexed in different directions. This is referred to as spine around the shaft or SAS. This is why you can often change the impact point of an arrow that doesn't shoot in the group by rotating the nock.

Aluminum arrows have the best SAS, and that's a big reason why they're a good choice for indoor target archery (along with the large diameters). Aluminum/Carbon composite shafts have better SAS and straightness than all carbon shafts.

An easy way to test SAS is to hold the nock end below the vanes in your left hand, place the right end on your mid thigh and flex the shaft in the middle with your right heel of your hand and roll the shaft. Make sure your pants aren't bunched up so you get a smooth roll. You can also use a few sheets of paper on a table top if you have cellulose thighs but remove the point. If you feel bumps as it rolls then you have some spine variation around the shaft. If it's smooth, you have pretty consistent SAS. This is a better way to evaluate shaft quality than reading a straightness label, but I'm definitely not supporting the notion that straightness doesn't matter.

Coop

 

[KHNC]

In my opinion, once someone decides to practice or shoot intensely past 50 yards, straightness definitely comes into play. In the 30 yd or less game, when hunting, it probably doesnt make all that much difference between .001 and .003. Coop has a great explanation i think.

 

[ontarget7]

This topic is a bit more complex than it seems on the surface. I worked with Easton engineers and discussed all of this at length. They have a 1500 pound shooting machine in an indoor test lane that's 90 meters. I've used it personally.

Straightness matters. The average shooter may not notice it when shooting field points, but a good shooter will definitely see it if he's shooting fixed blade broadheads.

The location and type of straightness flaw has a lot to do with how much it affects the accuracy. A tail section that's out of alignment is much more of a problem than if the point is a little bent for field points for instance.

Spine consistency is a much bigger factor in group size than straightness. Many carbon shafts have a lot of variance radially when flexed in different directions. This is referred to as spine around the shaft or SAS. This is why you can often change the impact point of an arrow that doesn't shoot in the group by rotating the nock.

Aluminum arrows have the best SAS, and that's a big reason why they're a good choice for indoor target archery (along with the large diameters). Aluminum/Carbon composite shafts have better SAS and straightness than all carbon shafts.

An easy way to test SAS is to hold the nock end below the vanes in your left hand, place the right end on your mid thigh and flex the shaft in the middle with your right heel of your hand and roll the shaft. Make sure your pants aren't bunched up so you get a smooth roll. You can also use a few sheets of paper on a table top if you have cellulose thighs but remove the point. If you feel bumps as it rolls then you have some spine variation around the shaft. If it's smooth, you have pretty consistent SAS. This is a better way to evaluate shaft quality than reading a straightness label, but I'm definitely not supporting the notion that straightness doesn't matter.

Coop

Very well said !

Thanks for sharing and definitely confirms my personal testing .

Shane

 

[ckleeves]

How big of a difference in accuracy are you guys talking here? Lets say field points at long range (80 yds?) how many inches are your groups changing?

 

[Lukem]

Good info Coop.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter, there is a difference, but it generally takes a shooting machine at great distance to definitely notice. I'd like to think I'm a good shooter and frequently shoot at longer distances (more of my practice is over 50 than under) and have very groups with my .006s and I haven't noticed a difference at all. My point is that the attitude of "how dare you shoot an inferior arrow at an animal" (exaggerated a bit I know, but it's there) is nonsense. It's just like my point of match grade ammo, how many do that? If you can buy a Kifaru, you can afford it (if you want to use that argument). If you like the 001s, shoot them, but the 006s aren't junk, don't judge other archers by the arrow they shoot, it might be me.

 

[MattB]

Darin made an important point and one that is overlooked by many bowhunters: spine consistency is more important than straightness when it comes to accuracy. I used to shoot .001" Goldtips that would not group nearly as well as my .006" Carbon Techs, and I attribute the difference to Carbon Tech's superior spine consistency. Most carbon arrow manufacturers quote straightness but not spine consistency for a reason.

 

[OR Archer]

I've ran a lot of arrows through a Hooter Shooter for customers to grade them. Even at 20 yards there are differences. Most .003 straightness arrows will hold a nickel size group at 20. Most of the .001 arrows will be dime size. On average the + .005 type arrows will be a quarter size group or better.

I think the biggest thing to consider when purchasing shafts based on the straightness tolerances is the consistency from shaft to shaft in a dozen arrows. You may get 7 or 8 shafts that are very consistent while the rest are just so so. If your dealer will allow it you can put the arrows on a straightness scale and roll them and find the best ones from a batch. Be sure to check the tolerances in at least 3 places along the shaft. This will assure you have a good consistent set of shafts before building them up.

 

[Chesapeake]

If your not flexing and spinning to find the spine of the shaft, like you would when building a fishing rod, I'm not sure how you would be able to discern the difference.
Maybe the tighter tolerance arrows are more consistent so they see less variation with what direction the spine is set??

I set all my arrows stiff side up. I don't think I shoot well enough to tell. But broad heads seem to fly more consistent that way.

 

[no limits]

Good info Coop.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter, there is a difference, but it generally takes a shooting machine at great distance to definitely notice. I'd like to think I'm a good shooter and frequently shoot at longer distances (more of my practice is over 50 than under) and have very groups with my .006s and I haven't noticed a difference at all. My point is that the attitude of "how dare you shoot an inferior arrow at an animal" (exaggerated a bit I know, but it's there) is nonsense. It's just like my point of match grade ammo, how many do that? If you can buy a Kifaru, you can afford it (if you want to use that argument). If you like the 001s, shoot them, but the 006s aren't junk, don't judge other archers by the arrow they shoot, it might be me.

If you are referring to me about what I said about buying junk tools, I apologize if I offended you it was not intentional. I was just trying to make an example,poor choice of words. I apologize again.

 

[ontarget7]

How big of a difference in accuracy are you guys talking here? Lets say field points at long range (80 yds?) how many inches are your groups changing?

I would say on average for me at 80 yards would be 2 inches larger in overall group averages. I will generally get a couple that would be fliers I don't even shoot due to there spine variance being off more than the rest.

I am very picky on my groups so I will take 2" all day long, its worth it to me. Not to mention, being able to use all 12 arrows I buy.

 

[Lukem]

If you are referring to me about what I said about buying junk tools, I apologize if I offended you it was not intentional. I was just trying to make an example,poor choice of words. I apologize again.

No, no worries. Sorry if that appeared to be aimed at you. You just used the word and it reminded me of attitudes I've had and that I see in a lot of people when discussing arrow straightness. It's an attitude regarding 006s (or other apparently subpar gear) that we acquire from reading forums and generally not from real world experience. We may think we've had that experience, but there are so many factors that play into accuracy it's easy to blame the lower grade arrows. Just like golf, if you suck, buy new clubs and by the time you've learned how to hit with them you'll be better anyway from practice or there's something that was different that was the fix we needed. We all think too highly of ourselves and are looking to blame our gear for our "mistakes". We then translate our experience with gear into a judgement of what others use. We all do it.

My issues with 006s started years ago because the shop that set me up sold me way underspined arrows. I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn compared to the aluminums I was replacing, they sold me another set of the 001s in the right spine and I was shooting darts. I blamed the grade when my real issue was spine. I've since learned how to properly set up my bow and now I really can't tell the difference.