Arrows

[matsprt]

As I continue to narrow down my bow choices I’m starting to see arrow selection is as complicated, if not more so, than bow selection,

Can someone address how in the heck you chose arrows ?? Length, weight, heads etc ??

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I would recommend a standard diameter (.244-.246"/6.5mm) shaft with middle-of-the-road gpi (grains per inch) plus whatever combination of insert and head weight is needed to get to your desired total arrow weight. Black Eagle Outlaw, Easton 6.5mm Acu-Carbon, Gold Tip Hunter, and Victory VForce would all fit the bill and will kill just as effectively as trendier (but more expensive/complicated) small/micro diameter arrows.

450-500 gr TAW is a good range for most hunters IMO. Use a spine chart or calculator to determine what spine is recommended for your draw weight and approximate arrow length and front end weight. Then figure out exactly what component weights you need to hit your target TAW. Minimum arrow length is determined by your draw length and how far back your rest sits. Carbon-to-carbon arrow length 1-2" shorter than your draw length is pretty common.

If you plan to shoot mechanical broadheads, vane choice doesn't matter much, just about anything will work. If you plan to shoot fixed blade heads, you'll need more fletching to counteract the ability of the head to steer the arrow off course. Three 2" Blazer vanes is a common choice and typically works well with any broadhead.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

pinwheel software is your friend for determining what combinations of arrow spine/length, insert and point weight will work for your bow, then you have to determine if that combo works for your wallet, and how much you care about the nuances of the overall arrow. The advice above is a good, solid starting point that you may never feel the need to move on from.

 

[Bump79]

I would recommend a standard diameter (.244-.246"/6.5mm) shaft with middle-of-the-road gpi (grains per inch) plus whatever combination of insert and head weight is needed to get to your desired total arrow weight. Black Eagle Outlaw, Easton 6.5mm Acu-Carbon, Gold Tip Hunter, and Victory VForce would all fit the bill and will kill just as effectively as trendier (but more expensive/complicated) small/micro diameter arrows.

450-500 gr TAW is a good range for most hunters IMO. Use a spine chart or calculator to determine what spine is recommended for your draw weight and approximate arrow length and front end weight. Then figure out exactly what component weights you need to hit your target TAW. Minimum arrow length is determined by your draw length and how far back your rest sits. Carbon-to-carbon arrow length 1-2" shorter than your draw length is pretty common.

If you plan to shoot mechanical broadheads, vane choice doesn't matter much, just about anything will work. If you plan to shoot fixed blade heads, you'll need more fletching to counteract the ability of the head to steer the arrow off course. Three 2" Blazer vanes is a common choice and typically works well with any broadhead.

I wouldn't neglect 6mm shafts either. No need for components outside of the standard steel that comes on a Easton Sonic.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I wouldn't neglect 6mm shafts either. No need for components outside of the standard steel that comes on a Easton Sonic.

Fair point. If you wanted to minimize shaft diameter while still being able to use a flanged RPS-style insert with standard threads, 6mm would be the way to go. Easton's Aftermath, Bloodline, FMJ, and Hexx are other 6mm other options in addition to the Sonic. Black Eagle Spartans are also of a similar diameter.

 

[justins71]

I have a long draw with moderate poundage (32", 70#) so I get limited by availability due to length and spine. Might want to start there if you have similar issues. After that, I looked at gpi and unfortunately most were ~11, but found the Victory RIP XV's that have 7gpi 300-spine. That helped keep arrow total weight down, otherwise it was getting ridiculous, like mid/upper 500's, and my sight was starting to max out at 60 yds from the drop lol. Then cost/availability factored in for me.

For arrow length, I always like to use an uncut arrow and draw it, then mark 1" past the shelf - keeps heads away from fingers. Depending on brace height, this could be different from bow to bow.

From there, it gets into the never-ending design debates - Mechanical vs Broadhead, use FOC or not, KE vs Momentum, etc etc. I'll just do everyone a favor and keep my opinions on those out of this! Bottom line here though, my suggestion is to pick a few reputable heads that you can source easily enough (both mechanical and broadhead), then just shoot to see what gets tunes the easiest for you and gives you the best grouping for your setup.

My 0.02!

 

[Button]

Determine what’s within your budget$.
Parameters are important to you.
As time goes on you’ll discover that a multitude of arrows and components will work.
Are you assembling/building these arrows yourself?

 

[matsprt]

Determine what’s within your budget$.
Parameters are important to you.
As time goes on you’ll discover that a multitude of arrows and components will work.
Are you assembling/building these arrows yourself?

To start I think it prudent to buy arrows already assembled and rely on the shop’s suggestions.
Currently this is way over my pay grade.

 

[5MilesBack]

For hunting arrows I try to stay around 7 GPP........grains per pound of draw weight. So for 70lbs~490gr total weight including heads. As for arrows.......a lot of great arrows out there, but I like shooting stuff.........so I want a very durable arrow that can hit some hard stuff and come out unscathed. So I've always leaned to what would be referred to as 5mm arrows these days. They are smaller diameter but have thicker walls so are more durable. But then you get into the world of "inserts" as well. I prefer either regular 16gr HIT (hidden insert technology) inserts or their 50gr or 75gr brass HIT inserts. Then there's fletching, and nocks.......etc. With more experience you'll figure out what works for you and what you like.

 

[Marble]

For hunting arrows I try to stay around 7 GPP........grains per pound of draw weight. So for 70lbs~490gr total weight including heads. As for arrows.......a lot of great arrows out there, but I like shooting stuff.........so I want a very durable arrow that can hit some hard stuff and come out unscathed. So I've always leaned to what would be referred to as 5mm arrows these days. They are smaller diameter but have thicker walls so are more durable. But then you get into the world of "inserts" as well. I prefer either regular 16gr HIT (hidden insert technology) inserts or their 50gr or 75gr brass HIT inserts. Then there's fletching, and nocks.......etc. With more experience you'll figure out what works for you and what you like.

@matsprt

If you follow this recipe you'll have a durable, high quality arrow that is not difficult to source and build.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[bwilsonj10]

Hi guys,
I've spent the last 2 days deep in the weeds of forums (broke down and made an account here) trying to build a set of arrows. I would love some experienced reviews/confirmation if it sounds good.
I want to shoot mainly outdoor 3D courses out to 100 yards and hunt western big game with ideally no adjustment in between.

- Bowtech Solution, comfort setting @ 72# ish, 28" draw, 27.75" arrow length.
(The edge of the shelf is 27.5" for me- I know, that seems long. Maybe my string has some stretch because it needs replacing)

- Victory VAP Target V1 .166 arrows. The victory spine tool doesn't work for me so I'm guessing it will be a 300 spine @ 7.8 gpi
- Victory VAP Shok Alumimum insert (35g), standard 125g FP for 3D and Styker V2 125g for hunting
- Beitner hunter nock (7.5g), Bohning 4" wrap (5g), 3x AAE Max Stealth vanes (9.2g each)

The Gold Tip tool says I'm at 416.5 g TAW and 13.4% FOC with that build.
I wanted to try TAC vanes since they're lighter and more stiff but I've read a couple people seeing large variations in weight (can anyone back that up here?)
That change to 6 g vanes would put me at 407 g and 14.7% FOC.

My main question is- am I too light on arrow weight (keeping in mind 99% of my shooting will be at foam in some type of wind where the speed would help)? Or is my FOC too low?
Are there any components I listed that you have bad experiences with?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

An aluminum half out with zero support on the outside of the arrow is a no go for me.

 

[bwilsonj10]

An aluminum half out with zero support on the outside of the arrow is a no go for me.

Ah, ok that's a good point.
I've always just used the regular insert that came with the shafts so I'm just now figuring out the HIT vs. halfout vs outsert thing.
Reading through threads and reviews, it seems the universal best option is Ironwill inserts and collars. With the obvious downside being $120/dozen added arrow costs... Ethics system seem to vary in cost but be around $100/dozen and day six is $60/dozen for 50 g total weight, but adds some length to the arrow wheras the first 2 don't really.

Do I have that about right? Are there any others to consider instead of the VAP half out? Going to a 50 g insert or halfout bumps me up to 422 g and 15.8% FOC- which is great for hunting but might not be as ideal for long range 3D courses.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

You can do the hit thing a bit lighter using the standard east on aluminum hit (16gr) and an aluminum ethics or titanium iron will collar. However, hit only works with .204 id shafts, not the micros you're looking at.

On the trajectory side, 6 grains heavier probably only costs you 1.2 fps. That will change your sight tape by 1 with an mbg sight. At the same time, you're really increasing durability by sandwiching the carbon in between pieces of metal on the impact end.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

One more thing, collars tend to cover up about an inch of the shaft. You need enough length to have that collar out in front of your arrow rest contact point.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Hi guys,
I've spent the last 2 days deep in the weeds of forums (broke down and made an account here) trying to build a set of arrows. I would love some experienced reviews/confirmation if it sounds good.
I want to shoot mainly outdoor 3D courses out to 100 yards and hunt western big game with ideally no adjustment in between.

- Bowtech Solution, comfort setting @ 72# ish, 28" draw, 27.75" arrow length.
(The edge of the shelf is 27.5" for me- I know, that seems long. Maybe my string has some stretch because it needs replacing)

- Victory VAP Target V1 .166 arrows. The victory spine tool doesn't work for me so I'm guessing it will be a 300 spine @ 7.8 gpi
- Victory VAP Shok Alumimum insert (35g), standard 125g FP for 3D and Styker V2 125g for hunting
- Beitner hunter nock (7.5g), Bohning 4" wrap (5g), 3x AAE Max Stealth vanes (9.2g each)

The Gold Tip tool says I'm at 416.5 g TAW and 13.4% FOC with that build.
I wanted to try TAC vanes since they're lighter and more stiff but I've read a couple people seeing large variations in weight (can anyone back that up here?)
That change to 6 g vanes would put me at 407 g and 14.7% FOC.

My main question is- am I too light on arrow weight (keeping in mind 99% of my shooting will be at foam in some type of wind where the speed would help)? Or is my FOC too low?
Are there any components I listed that you have bad experiences with?

qSpine/OT2Go says 300 is nearly "optimal" at your listed specs. Note that TAW will be a bit higher than what you calculated because VAP 300's are 8.7 gpi (not 7.8).


I don't shoot micros, but if I did I would use a HIT. The downside is that the Deep Six threads severely limit your broadhead choices.

 

[bwilsonj10]

One more thing, collars tend to cover up about an inch of the shaft. You need enough length to have that collar out in front of your arrow rest contact point.

Ok, I got more confused for a second but now I get it. "Deep six" and "Day six" sound annoyingly similar.

So if I go with a 4mm arrow, I will have to use a DEEP six BH/FP instead of standard 8-32 thread. Regardless of whether I used the Ironwill, Ethics, or Easton inserts. The DAY six website does not verify that you have to use DEEP six BH/FPs with their inserts, but I assume you do.

Lancaster only shows 350 and up spine VAP Target V1s, so I might have give up that idea anyway since I was just going with them to get a gift card deal they're doing. If I change, I'll go Axis 5mm with HIT inserts and some collar (probably break down and do Iron Will) so I can keep using my 8x32 BHs and FPs. Thanks for pointing out the things I didn't know there and saving me from not realizing my existing FPs/BHs wouldn't work!

 

[bwilsonj10]

qSpine/OT2Go says 300 is nearly "optimal" at your listed specs. Note that TAW will be a bit higher than what you calculated because VAP 300's are 8.7 gpi (not 7.8).
View attachment 437084

I don't shoot micros, but if I did I would use a HIT. The downside is that the Deep Six threads severely limit your broadhead choices.

Thanks so much for taking time to input my specs in that tool! I really appreciate it.

I realize now that Lancaster doesn't even list the 300 spine option so I was looking at the 350 spine option. Amazon said 7.8 gpi and some other retailer said 8.1 gpi, maybe they were two different generations of the arrow or something.

I also just realized the whole Deep Six thing... Really sucks because I spent so much time building things around the 4mm VAP but I don't want to render my existing Styker V2s useless. Also there are even fewer options for 125g BHs in Deep Six (which I think is a no brainer since we all add other weight to the front of the arrow artificially for FOC).

With that in mind, it seems like I have to either take the 4mm arrow and live with the halfout (which I now agree is sub-optimal compared to a HIT/collar) to run a 8-32 BH or give up the 4mm arrow and get the HIT/collar and free reign on BH choices... Decisions, decisions...

 

[Mighty Mouse]

With that in mind, it seems like I have to either take the 4mm arrow and live with the halfout (which I now agree is sub-optimal compared to a HIT/collar) to run a 8-32 BH or give up the 4mm arrow and get the HIT/collar and free reign on BH choices... Decisions, decisions...

Yes, the fact that the shaft ID is too small to accommodate a standard 8-32 threaded head/point is a major drawback of the 4mm/.166" arrow size. Your insert options are either a HIT with Deep Six (6-40) threads or a half-out/outsert with standard threads. Easton and Victory offer single piece 4mm half-outs in various weights/materials. Black Eagle, Day Six, Ethics, Gold Tip offer multi-component half-out + collar "systems." I stay away from 4mm arrows to avoid the insert dilemma altogether, but IMO even the best 4mm half-out will still be inferior to a HIT in terms of strength.

 

[bwilsonj10]

Yes, the fact that the shaft ID is too small to accommodate a standard 8-32 threaded head/point is a major drawback of the 4mm/.166" arrow size. Your insert options are either a HIT with Deep Six (6-40) threads or a half-out/outsert with standard threads. Easton and Victory offer single piece 4mm half-outs in various weights/materials. Black Eagle, Day Six, Ethics, Gold Tip offer multi-component half-out + collar "systems." I stay away from 4mm arrows to avoid the insert dilemma altogether, but IMO even the best 4mm half-out will still be inferior to a HIT in terms of strength.

Right, understood and agreed there based on my research today.
I've changed directions in the past few hours and now looking at Axis 5mm Pros or Victory RIP XVs. Leaning towards the XVs because they're sooo much lighter gpi.
I understand the Axis is an amazing arrow and probably a lot more durable for hunting situations. But I really want to push myself on 3D courses out to 100+ yards so I need a pretty light setup in the end.

With the 7.1 gpi of the XVs, using the 16g Easton 5mm HIT and 125 FP/BH (no added weight), I'm down to 368.5g and 14% FOC.
If I did the 50g brass insert instead, I would go to 402.5g and 16.6% FOC.
Not sure which setup would have less wind deflection + arrow drop at 60+ yards. Also not sure if 16.6% FOC is too high and would begin to parachute.
Probably something I would have to figure out by building a couple of each arrow. Which isn't ideal given the cost of all the components but might be worth it if I'm more confident that I'm shooting the best setup.