Axis arrows and ethics inserts?

[Sorry slinger]

Anyone running ethics inserts without the sleeve on the axis?

I am curious if the inserts cover the end of the shaft like a standard s insert. I don’t want to run the footer sleeves because I would have to run a quite a bit longer arrow if I went that route. Thanks

 

[jspradley]

I don't know about the Axis but they do fit flush with 5mm FMJs.

 

[Sorry slinger]

so they fit inside like the HIT, or they protect the end of the shaft like a standard?

 

[sndmn11]

They protect the end of the shaft and fit inside of it. I am curious why you would have to go to a longer arrow? They add about an inch to your BOP measurement.

 

[Boxerboxer]

They protect the end of the shaft and fit inside of it. I am curious why you would have to go to a longer arrow? They add about an inch to your BOP measurement.

Probably thinking in terms of the footer being very stiff and effectively stiffening the arrow.

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[5MilesBack]

Probably thinking in terms of the footer being very stiff and effectively stiffening the arrow.

It has nothing to do with stiffening, the footer will hit the rest thereby needing extra length for clearance in front of the rest.

 

[Sorry slinger]

It has nothing to do with stiffening, the footer will hit the rest thereby needing extra length for clearance in front of the rest.

Exactly

 

[5MilesBack]

And besides the fact that I've never really had a need for footers, the length issue is one reason why I don't use footers. Shooting at 32" to 32 1/2" draw my 30" arrows are already long enough.

 

[sndmn11]

The footer being on the rest will have zero effect on anything that a man could test.

 

[Boxerboxer]

It has nothing to do with stiffening, the footer will hit the rest thereby needing extra length for clearance in front of the rest.

Roger. My arrow is long enough that I didn't even think about that being a factor.

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[5MilesBack]

The footer being on the rest will have zero effect on anything that a man could test.

Zero effect? Let's see here.........I can come up with two effects just off the top of my head. Footers catching on the felt on the launcher while drawing..........and the arrow now being higher in the rest at full draw will require a different tune and sighting.

 

[sndmn11]

Maybe you guys are using a different version than I; the transition is very smooth and there is no edge to catch felt or whatnot. Leaving out the fact that changing to new inserts that give a longer overall shaft, and likely weight different than prior inserts, would need a different tune and sighting regardless, the arrow shaft is still in the same location every time......
Archery is all about consistency right? I will stand by my statement until testing shows different.

 

[Sorry slinger]

I am more concerned with the potential of the footer hitting the launcher and unseating the nock, I understand this is probably not likely, but I don't even want the potential of an accidental dryfire. And yes I already run 100 grain insert, shaft length will not need to change if I don't use an outsert, so I would not need to change tune. but if I have to go to a longer shaft to run an outsert I will likely be underspined, then need to drop a spine, which will then need to change everything.

That is why I am asking.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

The footer being on the rest will have zero effect on anything that a man could test.

I’ve drawn back an arrow with footer that was too short and pulled the nock off the string

 

[Blackcow]

No matter how smooth the transition, you dont want a footer or outsert up on the rest. It can will and does change things.

 

[sndmn11]

No matter how smooth the transition, you dont want a footer or outsert up on the rest. It can will and does change things.

How so? What is different about the Ethics footer than how a tapered shaft would behave?

The rest will stay in contact with the shaft for as long as the setup is intended to. The Ethics system doesn't defy gravity causing the shaft to hover uncontrollably off of the rest if the footer has made contact. The only way to produce inconsistent results in archery is to input inconsistent factors. An archer could ride the rest all the way up the taper to the back of their point if they wished everytime and never see a measurable deviation different than a a parallel shaft, or even a barrel taper.

 

[Blackcow]

With a .204 outsert, like an axis, black eagle rampage/renegade, the outsert is pretty much the same outside diameter of the shaft. So yeah the only thing would be if maybe there was a small lip that might catch the launcher. If not, no big. But the footer is a larger od than your shaft. Some are thinner than others. But just like switching from a .246 to a .204 arrow, your nock/rest height changes. You can tune it. Just easier to leave the 1" past your rest. I'm 6'5" with a 31.5" draw, and have found for me that the shaft diameter (sort of) and fletching choice (more so) have helped with wind drift vs whether my arrow is cut to the rest, the Berger hole or front of the shelf. But that's just me!

 

[h20fowler]

Here's an Axis 5mm with the Ethics .202/.203 100gr insert...

 

[5MilesBack]

How so? What is different about the Ethics footer than how a tapered shaft would behave?

The rest will stay in contact with the shaft for as long as the setup is intended to. The Ethics system doesn't defy gravity causing the shaft to hover uncontrollably off of the rest if the footer has made contact. The only way to produce inconsistent results in archery is to input inconsistent factors. An archer could ride the rest all the way up the taper to the back of their point if they wished everytime and never see a measurable deviation different than a a parallel shaft, or even a barrel taper.

If you have two arrows.........one with a footer, and the same without a footer........do you think those two arrows will impact the same spot when shooting? Measure the OD of an arrow with the footer versus an arrow w/o and divide the difference by two. That is the amount that you've just raised your arrow with the footer. That's like raising your rest that amount.......which changes the tune, and the impact point. There's no two ways around that. And I hated tapered shafts when I tried them.

But thankfully, I've never had a problem using regular and brass HIT's with parallel shafts the last 12+ years, so I don't see me using footers anytime soon.

 

[Sorry slinger]

With a .204 outsert, like an axis, black eagle rampage/renegade, the outsert is pretty much the same outside diameter of the shaft. So yeah the only thing would be if maybe there was a small lip that might catch the launcher. If not, no big. But the footer is a larger od than your shaft. Some are thinner than others. But just like switching from a .246 to a .204 arrow, your nock/rest height changes. You can tune it. Just easier to leave the 1" past your rest. I'm 6'5" with a 31.5" draw, and have found for me that the shaft diameter (sort of) and fletching choice (more so) have helped with wind drift vs whether my arrow is cut to the rest, the Berger hole or front of the shelf. But that's just me!

I cut my arrows to achieve proper spine and arrow flight, as long as the broadhead is in front of the launcher and not going to pop the nock off the string I didn't care where it ended up, but adding a footer that might catch the launcher is not an option in my opinion, that is why I asked if anyone had run just the insert without the footer.