Ballistics and Elk

[CAElkhunter]

The problem with this topic is it usually ends up in the wrong place. Very few people should be attempting 500 yd shots. Yes 300 WM is capable out to 750 or farther but only if everything is perfect and you practice regularly at that distance. More hunters should focus on getting within 300 yds for a clean kill shot. Unfortunately a lot of momentum is going in the target turret 1000 yd guaranteed gun direction.

The answer is pick a caliber you can shoot tight groups with and hit a pie pan at 200 yds. You will then be confident of punching the vitals vs. a miss or shooting it in the ass and not finding it.

Picking a 300 WM or 300 RUM with great ballistics and flinching won't kill elk. I personally shoot both
a 300 WM and 300 RUM and love them but I am 6'2 and have been shooting them for 20 yrs.....a lot of
my hunting friends can't shoot them.

 

[Flyjunky]

The problem with this topic is it usually ends up in the wrong place. Very few people should be attempting 500 yd shots. Yes 300 WM is capable out to 750 or farther but only if everything is perfect and you practice regularly at that distance. More hunters should focus on getting within 300 yds for a clean kill shot. Unfortunately a lot of momentum is going in the target turret 1000 yd guaranteed gun direction.

The answer is pick a caliber you can shoot tight groups with and hit a pie pan at 200 yds. You will then be confident of punching the vitals vs. a miss or shooting it in the ass and not finding it.

Picking a 300 WM or 300 RUM with great ballistics and flinching won't kill elk. I personally shoot both
a 300 WM and 300 RUM and love them but I am 6'2 and have been shooting them for 20 yrs.....a lot of
my hunting friends can't shoot them.

I agree with everything you just said except I'd say a Copenhagen lid instead of a pie pan. Things happen in the field and the more accurate the better. If you're only worried about pie pan accuracy, that's not good enough. We can talk and debate ballistics all day but the old adage of hitting them where it counts matter most.

I subscribe to aim small, miss small.

 

[5MilesBack]

I never really gave any thought to ballistics back when I rifle hunted elk. I shot them.......and they died........regardless what cartridge or bullet combination I was using. If I shot them, there was no doubt that they were going to die. The only question was "how far will they go, and how much of a trail will they leave". I was always more concerned about blood trails and getting two holes..........pretty much the same things I think about these days with archery.

 

[AaronMColeman]

I agree with 95%+ of what we are saying here. Hit them where you should and most any cartridge is fine.

I think where I would disagree is, just because you can hit accurately at a given distance doesn't mean the cartridge is good for elk. I can hit accurately at 500y+ with a .243. I wouldn't shoot an elk at that distance with that round though

Whoever recommended Backcountry Podcast, episode 96 has some really great descriptions of what happens to an elk when it is shot, lot's of great insights to help choose cartridge and type of bullet. Highly recommend for dorks like me who like the details.

 

[CAElkhunter]

I personally consider it part of the hunt to get within 300 yds even though I am capable and have made 500 yd shots. Those are a last resort and I don't set that as a goal for myself. I like being up close and personal with Bull elk. They are really cool to see and watch...before I shoot them.

My goal is 200-300 and I set an outside limit of 500 yds for myself and even then the conditions/shot have to be ideal or I pass regardless of the ballistics of my gun.

I saw a guy spine a bull at 800 yds last year with his 300RUM. It took him 1 1/2 hrs to get across the canyon to put the kill shot into the Bull. His gun had the ballistics to kill the bull at that yardage, the shot conditions were not ideal so to me it was an unethical shot because the bull laid there wounded for 1 1/2 hrs.

 

[Sled]

I agree with 95%+ of what we are saying here. Hit them where you should and most any cartridge is fine.

I think where I would disagree is, just because you can hit accurately at a given distance doesn't mean the cartridge is good for elk. I can hit accurately at 500y+ with a .243. I wouldn't shoot an elk at that distance with that round though

Whoever recommended Backcountry Podcast, episode 96 has some really great descriptions of what happens to an elk when it is shot, lot's of great insights to help choose cartridge and type of bullet. Highly recommend for dorks like me who like the details.

I know what you're getting at. Yes, a bow and arrow will kill an elk. One with a broad head will kill a lot sooner than a field point. At a certain distance every projectile becomes the equivalent of a field point. That's where good judgement and knowing your tools comes in handy.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with 95%+ of what we are saying here. Hit them where you should and most any cartridge is fine.

I think where I would disagree is, just because you can hit accurately at a given distance doesn't mean the cartridge is good for elk. I can hit accurately at 500y+ with a .243. I wouldn't shoot an elk at that distance with that round though

Whoever recommended Backcountry Podcast, episode 96 has some really great descriptions of what happens to an elk when it is shot, lot's of great insights to help choose cartridge and type of bullet. Highly recommend for dorks like me who like the details.

My 13 year old nephew shot this one, one time at 362 yards with a .243 and 100 grain nosler solid base about a month and a half ago.

Worked right fair, had good blood about 2 steps from where he hit it, right up to the dead elk about 100 yards later. Shot was just in front of the on-side shoulder, went through both lungs, broke the off side shoulder and was under the hide.

About 2 steps from where the bullet hit that elk...

Piled up:

Here's one I shot at 622 yards with a 7-08...MV 2850 140 grain accubond. It was standing at the top of the slide mark in the snow. Shot it and it stood there maybe 15 seconds, wobbled and hit the ground. Bullet passed through, breaking ribs in and out. Maybe a 50 cent piece sized exit.

Not much of ballistics guy and never did find an elk that read them either...

 

[5MilesBack]

I think where I would disagree is, just because you can hit accurately at a given distance doesn't mean the cartridge is good for elk. I can hit accurately at 500y+ with a .243. I wouldn't shoot an elk at that distance with that round though

"A man's got to know his limitations"........as well as his gun's.

 

[BuzzH]

Probably against the ballistic rules of killing elk, but shot this one in 2019 with my 6mm Remington and a 95 grain ballistic tip, 123 yards. Probably ran 75 yards and done.

Shot behind the near shoulder, broke the off shoulder, again, bullet just under the hide. The core separated from the jacket, but a pretty big ask of a cup and core not to...

 

[AaronMColeman]

My 13 year old nephew shot this one, one time at 362 yards with a .243 and 100 grain nosler solid base about a month and a half ago.

Worked right fair, had good blood about 2 steps from where he hit it, right up to the dead elk about 100 yards later. Shot was just in front of the on-side shoulder, went through both lungs, broke the off side shoulder and was under the hide.

About 2 steps from where the bullet hit that elk...

Piled up:

Here's one I shot at 622 yards with a 7-08...MV 2850 140 grain accubond. It was standing at the top of the slide mark in the snow. Shot it and it stood there maybe 15 seconds, wobbled and hit the ground. Bullet passed through, breaking ribs in and out. Maybe a 50 cent piece sized exit.

Not much of ballistics guy and never did find an elk that read them either...

I’m on your side. I think a lot of “underpowered” cartridges can take elk at good distances.

At some point ballistics and numbers matter. But for me it’s more curiosity and hobby than necessity. I could grab an off the shelf 30-06 and off the shelf ammo and be 100% confident that it would kill an elk if I do my part.

so ballistics matter. And they don’t matter.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Probably against the ballistic rules of killing elk, but shot this one in 2019 with my 6mm Remington and a 95 grain ballistic tip, 123 yards. Probably ran 75 yards and done.

Shot behind the near shoulder, broke the off shoulder, again, bullet just under the hide. The core separated from the jacket, but a pretty big ask of a cup and core not to...

Yup. That’s kinda what I feel too. I wouldn’t hunt with a round that small. But a 6mm or .243 has plenty of killing power for an elk out to 250y or more.

I feel like Guys get caught up in the bigger better camp, but loads of cartridges have wonderful ballistics within their effective range. I don’t know how to calculate that range and there’s no magic number. But I feel the numbers people usually quote are way higher than what is needed to kill an elk.

I’m a big fan of the 6.5s and 7s. And I probably wouldn’t go above a 7-08 unless I was shooting 1000+y which I don’t do in the field.

 

[wind gypsy]

Numbers are for people who dont understand how bullets work. Get a feel for how a given projectile works in tissue and bone at certain velocities and base any choices off of that.

 

[dieselchessy]

I use 1500 ftlbs of energy for elk with high power rifles and tough bullets. Keeping in mind bullet minimum velocity. My experience has shown me that's a good number that represents an adequate level of bullet weight and velocity to get the job done.
I use bonded or mono bullets. Tough ones more than soft ones.

I've killed a dozen or more elk with a muzzleloader, and a good handful with rifle, and seen 2x that killed by others next to me. I have a decent feel for the differences between cutting holes, punching holes, and blowing holes in elk.

To make reasonable comparison of rounds, bullets, and make an informed call on reasonable lethality you have to come up with some kind of metric and put some kind of number on it. For me that's 1500 ftlbs of energy.
Yes I know its simplified, and yes I know you can kill an elk with much less, and cause a mess and lose wounded elk with much more.

I also don't like much over 19ftlbs or recoil energy. A gun that's not fun to shoot wont see much practice.
Also not at all a fan of loudners and short barrels on hunting rifles. Easy to forget to take the time to put in ear plugs before shooting in hunting situations.

 

[Sled]

I also don't like much over 19ftlbs or recoil energy. A gun that's not fun to shoot wont see much practice.
Also not at all a fan of loudners and short barrels on hunting rifles. Easy to forget to take the time to put in ear plugs before shooting in hunting situations.

I agree, except for the short barrel. They sound just fine when paired with a short suppressor.

 

[nphunter]

I’ve shot close to two dozen elk. Never looked at my ballistics and don’t think it matters. Get as close as you can and shoot enough that your bullet goes where it is aimed. Don’t shoot at running animals.

I’ve killed elk with a .243, 30-06, 270, 280AI and multiple bow and arrow combos. All died equally dead.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Those who say they don’t pay attention to numbers, so you just grab any rifle and any bullet and go for it? I really doubt it. You probably grab something bigger than a 90g .243, and probably grab a bullet that is relatively tough. So maybe individually a lot don’t look at numbers, but someone did in designing the bullet and riffle. So to say numbers don’t matter is only true because someone else looked at them at some point.

pretty safe grabbing a win mag and any hunting bullet designed for it. Just because we don’t have to look at numbers doesn’t mean they don’t matter. For me I’m just curious. I have never had to shoot one beyond 350y I think. Pretty much anything will kill at those ranges.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Numbers are for people who dont understand how bullets work. Get a feel for how a given projectile works in tissue and bone at certain velocities and base any choices off of that.

For sure gotta have the right bullet. Numbers are worthless with the wrong bullet. People don’t talk nearly enough about this.

 

[Wassid82]

Ballistics.... hope for the best but plan for the worst. Some people have to lose an elk before that sinks in.

Amen

 

[5MilesBack]

Those who say they don’t pay attention to numbers, so you just grab any rifle and any bullet and go for it?

For elk my #1 priority for bullets was always deep penetration no matter what shot angle I had........so being able to stay together, and blow through heavy bone to get to the vitals. I love Swift A-frames........elk hate them. I never had to take long shots for elk, so ballistic numbers weren't all that interesting to me.

 

[rootacres]

I don't look at the impact velocity as much as I look at the kinetic energy. It depends on what bullet I am using, if the impact velocity is good for that bullet then I am good. The number I have always heard for KE is 1500 ft/lbs. So I just try to get close to that 1500 mark at my max intended range and call it a day. You can kill an elk with a longbow if hit in the right spot so I try not to get too hung up on velocity and KE. I just make sure my rifle has a little bit of horsepower and I shoot premium bullets.

We can all beat our heads against the wall trying to find the perfect combo. The more horsepower a rifle has, the more recoil they have which leads to diminishing returns on accuracy if you're keeping the rifle lighter weight for packing in and out.