Best Buy Once, Cry Once Muzzleloader Legal in Every State?

gtriple

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New to Muzzleloaders this season. I've got a Thompson Center Black Diamond that has been handed down to me that I'm planning to take to CO this year. It's a decent entry-level rifle, but I'm always looking to upgrade.

I'm looking for a recommendation on a top-of-the-line muzzleloader (production or custom) that can be legal in every state (or at least every western state) for any animal (elk, moose, and deer).

The needed specs I've gathered from a GoHunt article are:
50 cal or larger, loose powder when necessary, solid lead conical bullet (no sabot), swappable between percussion caps and 209 primers, open style or changeable ignition style, open sights (remove scope when needed).

I've looked at the CVA Paramount Pro Colorado, but I'm not sure it qualifies as open style ignition. Also looked at the Knight Peregrine, but it's not 50 cal.
 

GMB54-120

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JR Shultz with Shultz Precision Rifles. Awesome gunsmith and his muzzleloaders speak for themselves.
So his rifles can be changed to percussion ignition when needed? The Knight rifle can in just a couple minutes.
 

GMB54-120

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I've looked at the CVA Paramount Pro Colorado, but I'm not sure it qualifies as open style ignition. Also looked at the Knight Peregrine, but it's not 50 cal.
No it wont qualify in some states. Some require percussion caps and there is no conversion for the Paramount series of rifles.

A Knight Ultra Lite converts to whichever ignition type is needed within a couple minutes. So does a Mountaineer but its a much heavier rifle. Just swap out the bolt body and breech plugs.

You would buy a Western series Ulite. Then get the bare 209 bolt body and plug. Only tool you need is a socket and ratchet to change the plug. The bolt body requires no tools for the swap.

You could also get a Colorado model and the Western conversion kit but that would cost a little bit more for the conversion kit.
 
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Dented

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GM nailed it.
I set up an Ultra Light in exactly that way. I have removable scope mounts for states that only allow open sights, 2 breech plugs, and I've found loads that work for both monolithic bullets and lead conical bullets.

It was a lot of playing around, but it was also a ton of fun.

If you're going to use a 209 ignition, track down Jeff at Bestill Creations. His breech plug is worth the cash.

There's a ton of great information and exceptionally well informed people on this site.
 
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gtriple

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No it wont qualify in some states. Some require percussion caps and there is no conversion for the Paramount series of rifles.

A Knight Ultra Lite converts to whichever ignition type is needed within a couple minutes. So does a Mountaineer but its a much heavier rifle. Just swap out the bolt body and breech plugs.

You would buy a Western series Ulite. Then get the bare 209 bolt body and plug. Only tool you need is a socket and ratchet to change the plug. The bolt body requires no tools for the swap.

You could also get a Colorado model and the Western conversion kit but that would cost a little bit more for the conversion kit.
So this ML:

1653139601095.png

And this conversion kit:

What's the difference between the 209 bare and the full plastic jacket? Is the FPJ not legal in some states?
 

Legend

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The knight is not legal in Montana. Best production I found to meet the Montana requirements is a pedersoli hawken hunter.
 
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gtriple

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The knight is not legal in Montana. Best production I found to meet the Montana requirements is a pedersoli hawken hunter.
What requirement does it not meet for Montana?

All of the different ML requirements are crazy.
 
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gtriple

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I don't get it. Everyone is trying to push the limits like it's NASCAR. Any historically correct Black powder rifle of the right caliber will pass.
You don't get why getting an effective range of 3-400yds is better than 100yds?

I want the best tool for the job. I just don't want to have to maintain and practice with multiple different tools.
 

BBob

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What requirement does it not meet for Montana?

“You may not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech”

MONTANA

Muzzleloader hunters must use plain lead projectiles and a muzzleloading rifle that is charged with loose black powder, loose pyrodex, or an equivalent loose black powder substitute and be ignited by a flintlock, wheel-lock, matchlock, or percussion mechanism using a percussion or musket cap. The muzzleloading rifle must be a minimum of .45 caliber and may not have more than two barrels. You may not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech, or is mounted with an optical magnification device. Use of pre-prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks, or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm is also prohibited.


 

bayoublaster7527

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If you’re looking for top of the line, Arrowhead muzzleloaders out of AZ is pretty dang good. He pretty much sells a system with their own breech system and bullets. But it isn’t cheap by any means. Legal in most western states, maybe not ID and MT though. Easy to swap between scope and open sights.
 
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gtriple

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“You may not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech”

MONTANA

Muzzleloader hunters must use plain lead projectiles and a muzzleloading rifle that is charged with loose black powder, loose pyrodex, or an equivalent loose black powder substitute and be ignited by a flintlock, wheel-lock, matchlock, or percussion mechanism using a percussion or musket cap. The muzzleloading rifle must be a minimum of .45 caliber and may not have more than two barrels. You may not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech, or is mounted with an optical magnification device. Use of pre-prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks, or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm is also prohibited.


Okay, so basically MT requires a traditional flintlock style?

Is there any way (even if it's not produced yet) to convert a Knight UL to that?
 
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gtriple

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Sometimes its the Indian and not the arrow. I enjoy shooting these but obviously in the minority.
As a Native American, I agree. I've got like a 200 year old flintlock sitting in the safe. Might just have to see if it shoots.

It's sounding like a one-gun-fit-all isn't possible. But a Knight UL meets almost every western state. And then I'll get a flintlock for Montana and other states.

Thanks for all the help.
 

SteveAndTheCrigBoys

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I ended up with a Knight DISC because it was more readily available used than the ultralight. I know it can be converted to Idaho and CO use but haven't looked into Montana.

Shot it last weekend and, beyond the rear sight being wayyyy off, it was a dream to shoot compared to other muzzleloaders I've shot and even my Savage axis 30-06....

Check out @sabotloader 's threads. He posts tons of good info and has helped me and others out in the past.
 

30338

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As a Native American, I agree. I've got like a 200 year old flintlock sitting in the safe. Might just have to see if it shoots.

It's sounding like a one-gun-fit-all isn't possible. But a Knight UL meets almost every western state. And then I'll get a flintlock for Montana and other states.

Thanks for all the help.
That sounds like a really good plan. So many variables with the various states. 2 rifles would cover it though easily.
 

sneaky

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“You may not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech”

MONTANA

Muzzleloader hunters must use plain lead projectiles and a muzzleloading rifle that is charged with loose black powder, loose pyrodex, or an equivalent loose black powder substitute and be ignited by a flintlock, wheel-lock, matchlock, or percussion mechanism using a percussion or musket cap. The muzzleloading rifle must be a minimum of .45 caliber and may not have more than two barrels. You may not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech, or is mounted with an optical magnification device. Use of pre-prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks, or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm is also prohibited.


You aren't loading a Knight UL from the breech, and putting a number 11 cap or musket cap on the nipple isn't loading an "open" breech either. An open breech would be removing the entire breech plug, and no one does that to load one. That regulation sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't know what the heck they're describing. The Knight UL is loaded from the muzzle just like any other muzzleloader.
 
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