Best Multi-Western-State Muzzleloader?

Umpqua Hunter

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I am wondering what you think is the BEST muzzleloader that can be used in most/all western states. For this, I would like the muzzleloader to have all of the following criteria.

1) 50 caliber

2) Can shoot BOTH 209 primers (closed ignition, where legal) AND #11 percussion caps (open ignition, can see the cap when gun is cocked).

3) I am thinking I'd like a fast twist (1:28) so I can shoot sabots accurately (where legal) and heavy conicals.

4) A premium quality barrel.

5) I would prefer to shoot a break action for clean-up purposes.

I am currently shooting a Knight DISC rifle and also have the percussion cap conversion kit for here in Oregon. I am very happy with the accuracy, but it's a bit of a pain to clean. I also have a CVA Accura for where 209 primers are legal. I also have a buddy just getting started and is looking for his first muzzleloader. Any ideas?
 

sabotloader

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That is a pretty easy one for me...

It is expensive for most but it is an excellent rifle with all the features or abliities that you have listed... and you already have its big brother.... Look at the new Knight Ultra Lite. #6 pounds of rifle and it even now can be be made Western State legal with open sights and a Western Conversion kit for the bolt and breech plug.

I assume you already have the conversion for the DISC Extreme - so you might already know what I am talking about.

This is a picture of the conversion installed in a DISC Extreme I have and use here in Idaho, course the scope comes off for ML season

P1010014.jpg


Then I use the same rifle for rifle season with the scope back on and a 209 breech plug. I use a Lehigh now Knight NFPJ conversion which make the breech virtually clean after many many shots...

CompositePicture.jpg



On the Web site Knight does show a Western Option for the Ultra light. They have just competed developement and testing of the new tooling. But it is coming.

UL_GS_6001.jpg


http://www.knightrifles.com/ultra-lite/
 
OP
Umpqua Hunter

Umpqua Hunter

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Sabotloader...I was really hoping you would chime in.

Do you have a link for the Lehigh Adapter for the Knight DISC Elite?

Also what sights do you like when you are shooting open sights in Idaho? I love the XS ghost rings sights with a patridge front blade, but I am always looking for possible improvements.
 
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sabotloader

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Sabotloader...I was really hoping you would chime in.

Do you have a link for the Lehigh Adapter for the Knight DISC Elite?

You can not buy them from Lehigh any longer... They are under contract to Knight...

http://www.knightrifles.com/209-conversion-breech-plug-M900044/

And you might try this guy he had a lot of them for sale....

I met this person a couple weeks ago. He has 20 or 30 for sale right now. These are the Knight plugs with removable vent-liner. Ventliners are not included. If interested email Buddy:

[email protected]>

$45.00 delivered for one, or $80.00 Delivered for two.


If you buy from hime you will need to go to the Lehigh site and order some vent liners... these are really a better buy than the ones from Knight as the vent liner is removable in these and in the Knight they are permanent in place...

Also what sights do you like when you are shooting open sights in Idaho? I love the XS ghost rings sights with a patridge front blade, but I am always looking for possible improvements.[/QUOTE]

My choice for open sights on a dedicated ML is the Williams FP peep sight with a front fire sight blade.

FPComposite.jpg


P1010002a.jpg


When I go to a rifle that I use during rifle season and ML season I remove the scope and install a NECG Weaver style peep sight.

https://newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/Peep_Sights.asp

Go down the page to Weaver style...

Hope this helps you a bit... during low light - I do remove the peep aperture and use the holder as a ghost ring...
 

sabotloader

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Sabot,
If you had to choose a number 2, what would it be?

You mean a second choice for a Western legal ML...

I am not sure where my head was when I originally answered this - but without a doubt my second choise and the choice I am using now is a Knight DISC Extreme with a Western Kit installed...

After that... then the following...

If that is what you are asking i would go back in time and find a Remington 700ML - that is another do it all gun. After that a White...

None of the newer Western legal guns do anything for me because really they are 209 rifles with a backwards conversion to caps. Then they try to use the same hammer assembly to power a percussion cap..

The TC Northwest could be a decent gun but they use a 1-48 twist - why I have no clue...
 
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Umpqua Hunter

Umpqua Hunter

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My choice for open sights on a dedicated ML is the Williams FP peep sight with a front fire sight blade.

FPComposite.jpg


P1010002a.jpg


When I go to a rifle that I use during rifle season and ML season I remove the scope and install a NECG Weaver style peep sight.

https://newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/Peep_Sights.asp

Go down the page to Weaver style...

Hope this helps you a bit... during low light - I do remove the peep aperture and use the holder as a ghost ring...

Sabotloader a question for you:

As I mentioned, I have an XS sight ghost ring rear sight and a white line patridge front sight on my Knight DISC. I found that I prefer that front blade over a fiber optic. I also have a Ruger 10/22 that has the exact same sights and with a 8" gong at 100 yards behind the house, I get in tons of practice with the same sight picture.

My question is, looking at the photo of your set-up, I really like the greater adjustability of the Williams peep sight. There very little adjustment on the XS ghost ring. In fact on my Knight DISC I ended up filing my front blade so short (about 1/8" tall) that I have lost a lot of advantages of the white line on the blade. The front blade is so short I am actually having the base of the sight now interfering with the sight picture somewhat. Do you think I could use the Williams peep sight with the white line patridge front blade (I would get a new longer blade)? I would think I would get a similar sight picture to the ghost ring, so you agree? As you said, in low light I could remove the aperture.
 

sabotloader

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Sabotloader a question for you:

As I mentioned, I have an XS sight ghost ring rear sight and a white line patridge front sight on my Knight DISC. I found that I prefer that front blade over a fiber optic. I also have a Ruger 10/22 that has the exact same sights and with a 8" gong at 100 yards behind the house, I get in tons of practice with the same sight picture.

My question is, looking at the photo of your set-up, I really like the greater adjustability of the Williams peep sight. There very little adjustment on the XS ghost ring. In fact on my Knight DISC I ended up filing my front blade so short (about 1/8" tall) that I have lost a lot of advantages of the white line on the blade. The front blade is so short I am actually having the base of the sight now interfering with the sight picture somewhat. Do you think I could use the Williams peep sight with the white line patridge front blade (I would get a new longer blade)? I would think I would get a similar sight picture to the ghost ring, so you agree? As you said, in low light I could remove the aperture.

I am sure that you could put a Williams FP on your rifle with a new front blade and be just fine... there is a lot of adjustment... plus like I said in low light I just remove the aperture and use the sight as a ghost ring. They also make a daylite apetrue that has a brass ring inside the aperture cone which helps magnify available light. I have an extra FP I would sell for $40 - if you are interested.

Is your Extreme a new one or one of the older Extremes. The new Extreme bolt handles are built different than the older ones and can require a little metal removal on the the leading edge of the site to clear the handle...
 
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Umpqua Hunter

Umpqua Hunter

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Cool. I'll take that extra Williams FP if it will fit my gun. I have the new Knight DISC Extreme (about 16 months old). My boys also have Knight Bighorns (older guns). I'll send you a PM.
 
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