This. One way or another, the outcome is inevitable. Best to put a plan in place.
Better figure it out, Colorado...
- Thread starter jmcd22
- Start date
This. One way or another, the outcome is inevitable. Best to put a plan in place.
elkstabber
WKR
I'm not a biologist either but it's well known among wolf researchers that the number one killer of timber wolves is other timber wolves. They kill rival pack members. Simple as that.
sndmn11
WKR
Pssshhhhttt Coloradans crossed that bridge four years ago. https://www.skyhinews.com/news/no-charges-in-kremmling-wolf-shooting/
elkstabber
WKR
True that it has happened. The accidental shooting of wolves wasn't prosecuted. But it won't happen again. It won't be forgiven again. Nope, Coloradans haven't crossed that bridge.
sndmn11
WKR
There was zero push back on the decision and the intentional process that took place. It set a standard for future incidents so that if and when it does happen again the result will be the same. GCSO and CPW funneled the information well to USFWS allowing that to happen.
Hope all the guys on here praising wolves remember this
Washington just reduced its bull tags by 70 to 80 per cent
You guys don’t understand the politics regarding wolves. You can put management plans in place and well funded anti hunting groups know the plans are not enforceable and go to court find a liberal judge and just shut them down.
Here in Washington radical anti hunting groups like Conservation NW offer large awards to
Prosecute wolf shooters
$20,000 Reward Offered In Eastern Washington Wolf Poaching Cases
Conservation groups are offering a hefty reward for information leading to the poachers who killed two protected wolves in northeastern Washington…
www.nwnewsnetwork.org
Of course they offer zero money when elk and sheep are poached
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Exactly!! This was my whole point on management plan. Wont make much, if any, difference at all on the first few hunt plans. Maybe on the 3rd or 4th attempt to thin them out will be successful.
Washington and Oregon ranchers are really loving the wolf management plans
Rogue Pack of wolves kills eighth cow in SW Oregon
MEDFORD, Ore. (AP) - Authorities say gray wolf OR-7's Rogue Pack has been blamed for killing another cow at a ranch in southwest Oregon, marking the eighth confirmed livestock kill attributed to the pack since late October.
www.ktvz.com
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
- Banned
- #29
Oregon allows the take of wolves for livestock predation, even in Phase I as outlined in their management plan:
This is why State plans are important....if only obviously.
Lethal take of wolves will be authorized in two situations regarding conflict with livestock as
described below. Threat to human safety is a third situation in which the use of lethal force is
allowed, as discussed in Chapter VI of this Plan.
1. To stop a wolf in the act of attacking livestock: On private and public land, a permit is required
for livestock producers, grazing permittees (using public lands), or designated agents to use
lethal force to stop a wolf that is in the act of biting, wounding or killing livestock. Such permits
are issued only after ODFW has confirmed wolves previously have wounded or killed livestock
in the area and efforts to resolve the problem have been deemed ineffective. Efforts to resolve
the problem may either be preventative efforts (i.e., documented non-lethal actions implemented
specifically to minimize or avoid wolf-livestock conflict before the initial depredation), or nonlethal control efforts (i.e., non-lethal actions implemented specifically to minimize or avoid wolflivestock conflict after the initial depredation). The permit holder is required to continue
implementing non-lethal actions to minimize or avoid wolf-livestock conflicts during the life of
the permit and issuance of future permits will be contingent upon this effort. “In the area”
means the area known to be used by the depredating wolves. In some cases, the area may be
specifically delineated by data (i.e., radio telemetry).
Oregon Wolf Conservation and Management Plan /Chapter III – Wolf-Livestock/Domestic Animal Conflicts Page 48
If a wolf is taken under the caught in the act permit, the permit holder must preserve evidence (on
site) of an animal(s) freshly (less than 24 hours) wounded or killed by wolves and ODFW personnel
must confirm the livestock loss or wound was caused by wolves.
A permit is required on private and public land.
The wolf must be found in the act of attacking, not testing or scavenging.
There must be fresh evidence that an attack occurred (e.g., visible wounds, tracks
demonstrating a chase occurred).
The wolf carcass must not be removed or disturbed.
Any incident must be reported to ODFW or Wildlife Services within 24 hours.
No identified circumstances exist that are attracting wolf-livestock conflict.
Permit holder is required to implement non-lethal actions to minimize or avoid wolf livestock conflict during the life of the permit.
2. To stop chronic wolf-related depredation on private and public land: State or federal agents are
authorized to use lethal force on wolves on public or private land at a property owner’s or
permittee request if ODFW has confirmed two depredations in the area by wolves on livestock,
or one confirmed depredation followed by three attempted depredations (testing or stalking).
For such action to occur, the following criteria apply:
The action must be conducted by authorized state or federal personnel only.
Attempts to solve the situation through non-lethal means must be documented.
No identified circumstances exist that are attracting wolf-livestock conflict.
Evidence does not exist of non-compliance with applicable laws
This is why State plans are important....if only obviously.
Lethal take of wolves will be authorized in two situations regarding conflict with livestock as
described below. Threat to human safety is a third situation in which the use of lethal force is
allowed, as discussed in Chapter VI of this Plan.
1. To stop a wolf in the act of attacking livestock: On private and public land, a permit is required
for livestock producers, grazing permittees (using public lands), or designated agents to use
lethal force to stop a wolf that is in the act of biting, wounding or killing livestock. Such permits
are issued only after ODFW has confirmed wolves previously have wounded or killed livestock
in the area and efforts to resolve the problem have been deemed ineffective. Efforts to resolve
the problem may either be preventative efforts (i.e., documented non-lethal actions implemented
specifically to minimize or avoid wolf-livestock conflict before the initial depredation), or nonlethal control efforts (i.e., non-lethal actions implemented specifically to minimize or avoid wolflivestock conflict after the initial depredation). The permit holder is required to continue
implementing non-lethal actions to minimize or avoid wolf-livestock conflicts during the life of
the permit and issuance of future permits will be contingent upon this effort. “In the area”
means the area known to be used by the depredating wolves. In some cases, the area may be
specifically delineated by data (i.e., radio telemetry).
Oregon Wolf Conservation and Management Plan /Chapter III – Wolf-Livestock/Domestic Animal Conflicts Page 48
If a wolf is taken under the caught in the act permit, the permit holder must preserve evidence (on
site) of an animal(s) freshly (less than 24 hours) wounded or killed by wolves and ODFW personnel
must confirm the livestock loss or wound was caused by wolves.
A permit is required on private and public land.
The wolf must be found in the act of attacking, not testing or scavenging.
There must be fresh evidence that an attack occurred (e.g., visible wounds, tracks
demonstrating a chase occurred).
The wolf carcass must not be removed or disturbed.
Any incident must be reported to ODFW or Wildlife Services within 24 hours.
No identified circumstances exist that are attracting wolf-livestock conflict.
Permit holder is required to implement non-lethal actions to minimize or avoid wolf livestock conflict during the life of the permit.
2. To stop chronic wolf-related depredation on private and public land: State or federal agents are
authorized to use lethal force on wolves on public or private land at a property owner’s or
permittee request if ODFW has confirmed two depredations in the area by wolves on livestock,
or one confirmed depredation followed by three attempted depredations (testing or stalking).
For such action to occur, the following criteria apply:
The action must be conducted by authorized state or federal personnel only.
Attempts to solve the situation through non-lethal means must be documented.
No identified circumstances exist that are attracting wolf-livestock conflict.
Evidence does not exist of non-compliance with applicable laws
- Banned
- #30
Same/Same in Washington:
able 7. Management options to address depredation of livestock and domestic dogs during wolf recovery phases in Washington.
2
able 7. Management options to address depredation of livestock and domestic dogs during wolf recovery phases in Washington.
2
| Management Option | Endangered | Threatened | Sensitive | Delisted |
| Wolf location information to livestock owners | Provided | Provided | Provided | Provided |
| Non-injurious harassment | Allowed | Allowed | Allowed | Allowed |
| Non-lethal injurious harassment | Allowed by state/federal agents | Allowed with a permit and training from WDFW | Allowed with a permit and training from WDFW | Allowed with a permit and training from WDFW |
| Relocation | Allowed by state/federal agents | Allowed by state/federal agents | Allowed by state/federal agents | Allowed by state/federal agents |
| Lethal control of wolves to resolve repeated wolf livestock conflicts | Allowed by state/federal agents on a case-by-case basis | Allowed by state/federal agents on a case-by-case basis | Allowed by state/federal agents, and livestock owners (including family members and authorized employees) as permitted on private lands and public grazing allotments they own or lease | Allowed by state/federal agents, and livestock owners (including family members and authorized employees) as permitted on private lands and public grazing allotments they own or lease |
| Lethal take of wolves in the act of attacking (biting, wounding, or killing) livestock, including guarding/herding animals. | Allowed by livestock owners (including family members and authorized employees) on private land they own or lease. This will be rescinded if used inappropriately or > 2 incidents occur annually statewide. | Allowed by livestock owners (including family members and authorized employees) on private land they own or lease. This will be rescinded if used inappropriately or > 2 incidents occur annually statewide. | Allowed by livestock owners (including family members and authorized employees) on private land they own or lease | Allowed by livestock owners (including family members and authorized employees) on private and public land they own or lease |
| Lethal take of wolves in the act of attacking (biting, wounding, or killing) domestic dogs (see Chapter 7, Section D) | Not allowed | Not allowed | Allowed on private and public land | Allowed on private and public land |
More wolf stuff for the guys in Colorado. They're wonderful magnificent animals and only target the weak and the sick. Ranchers should appreciate that wolves are just keeping their livestock healthy.
The wolf huggers will spread their propanda and have you believe that these management plans work and they support ranchers in defending their livestock and that introduction of thousands of wolves are a big benefit.
FYI the ranchers I know in Washington and Oregon advised that they received death threats after having to shoot wolves killing their livestock. And they advised that they were treated like criminals and threatened with prosecution by the state. They spent thousands in attorney fees to defend themselves.
Now its strictly SSS.
Maybe you can wait 15 years to draw a bull tag like we do in Washington state and Oregon once they introduce wolves in your state.
And non residents say good bye to your OTC tags
www.capitalpress.com
www.outdoorlife.com
missoulian.com
The wolf huggers will spread their propanda and have you believe that these management plans work and they support ranchers in defending their livestock and that introduction of thousands of wolves are a big benefit.
FYI the ranchers I know in Washington and Oregon advised that they received death threats after having to shoot wolves killing their livestock. And they advised that they were treated like criminals and threatened with prosecution by the state. They spent thousands in attorney fees to defend themselves.
Now its strictly SSS.
Maybe you can wait 15 years to draw a bull tag like we do in Washington state and Oregon once they introduce wolves in your state.
And non residents say good bye to your OTC tags
Wolf suspected of killing 23 sheep at Oregon Coast
Wildlife officials say a lone wolf “probably” killed nearly two dozen sheep between Feb. 23 and March 4 at the Oregon Coast, and according to local ranchers, it might not
Two Wolves Kill 176 Sheep in One Night Near Idaho Falls
If you have any doubts about the gray wolf's hunting ability, or its impact on livestock, you should talk to the sheepherders in Idaho where two wolves recently zeroed in on a flock of 2,400 sheep near Idaho Falls.
www.outdoorlife.com
Wolves kill 120 sheep at ranch near Dillon
HELENA - While the debate about how many wolves are enough to ensure a healthy population will again come to a head in a federal courtroom Monday, a Dillon-area ranch
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- Banned
- #32
More wolf stuff for the guys in Colorado. They're wonderful magnificent animals and only target the weak and the sick. Ranchers should appreciate that wolves are just keeping their livestock healthy.
Maybe you can wait 15 years to draw a bull tag like we do in Washington state once they introduce wolves in your state.
Wolf suspected of killing 23 sheep at Oregon Coast
Wildlife officials say a lone wolf “probably” killed nearly two dozen sheep between Feb. 23 and March 4 at the Oregon Coast, and according to local ranchers, it might not
Two Wolves Kill 176 Sheep in One Night Near Idaho Falls
If you have any doubts about the gray wolf's hunting ability, or its impact on livestock, you should talk to the sheepherders in Idaho where two wolves recently zeroed in on a flock of 2,400 sheep near Idaho Falls.
Wolves kill 120 sheep at ranch near Dillon
HELENA - While the debate about how many wolves are enough to ensure a healthy population will again come to a head in a federal courtroom Monday, a Dillon-area ranch
Exactly why CO better get its act together, or they wont have options to deal with situations like those...
WV Mountaineer
WKR
As sad as this is, it gets even harder to swallow with the understanding that hunting organizations are setting idly by with little participation. That includes the NRA down to the BHA. With all the "hunters" out there unwilling to acknowledge the reason these wolves are being used by the enemies of hunting, reality says hunters who enjoy Colorado better get it while the getting is still good
wapitibob
WKR
A western states only option for wolf management is via an approved wolf management plan. A fact lost on most hunters so, what would you have these orgs do?
WV Mountaineer
WKR
Bob, asvyou just said, a fact lost on most hunters. Also, why is the NRA, the BHA, etc.... not conditioning the non hunting public in Colorado as we speak. Members pay fees. Why not play the same game as those pushing this ? That’s where we are being misrepresented.
As far as the plan, you are exactly right. The state needs to get on the ball. It’s hard to convince a judge that you are capable of managing a wolf population when you haven’t addressed the issue.
As far as the plan, you are exactly right. The state needs to get on the ball. It’s hard to convince a judge that you are capable of managing a wolf population when you haven’t addressed the issue.
Gobbler36
WKR
Exactly hand out unlimited elk tags and keep NR at 10% no matter how much our elk populations has dropped sounds great.... crazy the other day I googled and saw that Idaho had upwards of 180k elk and now have 90k at best. Really surprised me, anyhow I digress hopefully Colorado will keep fighting the good fight and vote it down
I just pulled an article on IDFG that says 120k elk. Still down from historic numbers, but well above your 90k estimate.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
What good is a state sanctioned wolf plan when anti hunting organizations ( many times working in conjunction with state wildlife officials) file frivolous lawsuits to render the wolf management plan inoperable ?
The state managed wolf plans are a joke as the anti hunting groups have infiltrated many of the states' wildlife management agencies. Wyoming, Idaho and Montana now are exceptions but soon will change.\ but more and more anti hunting groups are making inroads there too.
FYI - BHA is not a pro hunting organization. They are for more public access to include anti hunting organizations that provide much more funding than individual sportsmen.
Who do you think BHA will listen to? And why would BHA have anti hunting reps on their boards? Wake up folks
The state managed wolf plans are a joke as the anti hunting groups have infiltrated many of the states' wildlife management agencies. Wyoming, Idaho and Montana now are exceptions but soon will change.\ but more and more anti hunting groups are making inroads there too.
FYI - BHA is not a pro hunting organization. They are for more public access to include anti hunting organizations that provide much more funding than individual sportsmen.
Who do you think BHA will listen to? And why would BHA have anti hunting reps on their boards? Wake up folks
Mike7
WKR
The wolves in Idaho are doing just fine with basically an open season on them. Elk calf survival rates were becoming pitiful prior to wolf hunting/trapping really getting going.
Knowing this situation, which has already occurred and so is not some hypothetical, why then do Oregon and Washington, who got their wolves from Idaho, still have such anemic wolf management plans?
How does Colorado avoid this same type of debilitating plan when wolves are a big money maker for locale specific politically dominant groups like the aforementioned Conservation Northwest who play loose with the truth and have an agenda which only reluctantly tolerates any hunting...and certainly not wolf hunting?
These would seem to be some questions that need to be answered when trying to develop a strategy.
Knowing this situation, which has already occurred and so is not some hypothetical, why then do Oregon and Washington, who got their wolves from Idaho, still have such anemic wolf management plans?
How does Colorado avoid this same type of debilitating plan when wolves are a big money maker for locale specific politically dominant groups like the aforementioned Conservation Northwest who play loose with the truth and have an agenda which only reluctantly tolerates any hunting...and certainly not wolf hunting?
These would seem to be some questions that need to be answered when trying to develop a strategy.
wapitibob
WKR
Everybody in the state has a voice in the management plan, despite the angst it may cause us hunters. With the population majority in Oregon along the I-5 corridor, out of touch with ranching and local "hands on" interaction, input for the plan was slanted away from what hunters and ranchers would have liked. That same I-5 corridor voted to eliminate hounds and trapping as a means of Bear and Cougar control. Unfortunately, this state is controlled by the majority who reside on the west side and our game animals are paying a price for that.
In my opinion, Colorado needs to do as Buzz mentioned; go to school on the WY/ID/MT plans. Learn from their experts, the guys who negotiated those plans, and come up with one that will get approved and control measures that will be effective. But, hunters aren't the only ones at the table, and you're dealing with a species that's listed as endangered. You may not get what you want no matter how hard you try.
In my opinion, Colorado needs to do as Buzz mentioned; go to school on the WY/ID/MT plans. Learn from their experts, the guys who negotiated those plans, and come up with one that will get approved and control measures that will be effective. But, hunters aren't the only ones at the table, and you're dealing with a species that's listed as endangered. You may not get what you want no matter how hard you try.
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