Beulah unit Oregon mule deer hunting advice

[Extrapale]

Mule deer have co-evolved with all the predators currently on the landscape.

When ODFW ran hounds in MDI areas there was no difference in adult survival when they were doing cougar removals.

Again, no one will get on board with the habitat issue. It’s easy to point your fingers at cougars when in reality mule deer have been escaping and avoiding predation their entire existence. Poor habitat leads to less healthy deer more susceptible to predation.

So that must mean it’s predators. No, it’s lack of habitat.

And don’t listen to that idiot in Eugene, Wayne Endicott. He’s hunted the unit 2 weekends a year so he knows what the fawn survival rate is and their cause specific mortality. What a joke.


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What significant change has there been in the last 30 years to the mule deer habitat in the Beulah Unit? It should be obvious because the population has decreased by more than 50%.



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[Gear-Reviewer]

Yeah they’ve been use to predation for their existence, but factor in poaching, hunting harvest, vehicle collisions, etc the predators kill a much higher percentage of the deer with a lower percentage available. Obviously “predators” aren’t the only issue but they definitely are a big chunk of our problem.

And yes I’ve lived in Oregon my whole life/spend a ton of time in the field...

 

[slick]

Yeah they’ve been use to predation for their existence, but factor in poaching, hunting harvest, vehicle collisions, etc the predators kill a much higher percentage of the deer with a lower percentage available. Obviously “predators” aren’t the only issue but they definitely are a big chunk of our problem.

And yes I’ve lived in Oregon my whole life/spend a ton of time in the field...

Why do they now kill a higher percentage of deer? What percent is that?

Hunting harvest? Didn’t know ODFW has been killing mule deer does? Bucks don’t contribute to population growth it’s all doe survival and fawn recruitment.

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[slick]

What significant change has there been in the last 30 years to the mule deer habitat in the Beulah Unit? It should be obvious because the population has decreased by more than 50%.



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Could it be that the sequence the landscape is in right now through natural succession just isn’t viable healthy deer habitat?

The different precipitation patterns are having a different green up effect than it was 30 years, 50 years, or 100 years ago?

That forbs and grammanoids once available during peak lactation when a doe needs the highest quality forage, are now shifted, or senesced before they can be best utilized?

Just to reiterate: predators kill deer, but if you have poor quality habitat, you have poor quality individual health, leading to increased susceptibility of predation events.


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[Extrapale]

Could it be that the sequence the landscape is in right now through natural succession just isn’t viable healthy deer habitat?

The different precipitation patterns are having a different green up effect than it was 30 years, 50 years, or 100 years ago?

That forbs and grammanoids once available during peak lactation when a doe needs the highest quality forage, are now shifted, or senesced before they can be best utilized?

Just to reiterate: predators kill deer, but if you have poor quality habitat, you have poor quality individual health, leading to increased susceptibility of predation events.


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It could be a lot of different things. Throwing up your arms and saying it's habitat and there is nothing we can do about it is unacceptable. Especially from ODFW.

Do you see a lot of Mule Deer in poor body condition? I don't in the places I go.

If the problem is truly habitat it should be easy to document. Skinny does at critical times of the year, skinny Malnourished fawns, deer dieing on the winter range in average winters.

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[slick]

It could be a lot of different things. Throwing up your arms and saying it's habitat and there is nothing we can do about it is unacceptable. Especially from ODFW.

Do you see a lot of Mule Deer in poor body condition? I don't in the places I go.

If the problem is truly habitat it should be easy to document. Skinny does at critical times of the year, skinny Malnourished fawns, deer dieing on the winter range in average winters.

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Agreed, it’s a multitude of factors. People just latch onto the predator thing and get so focused on that, some forget to take into account anything else.

Never once did I throw my arms up and say there’s nothing we can do about it. And I haven’t heard ODFW say that either.

All sorts of MDI money being tossed at habitat improvement but it’s not a quick fix, it’s a long term solution.

I haven’t had any deer in hand to see a body score. Pretty tough for someone to make an assumption without a rump fat measurement.

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[Baddog]

Hunting cougar in Oregon | Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife

Cougar season and hunting information, including information about cougar conflict target areas. Resuming in 2022, successful cougar hunters must appear in-person at an ODFW office to check in their cougar.

myodfw.com

 

[Baddog]

ODFW does say removing cats helps survival and fawn recruitment.
Hunting/predators are the easiest to manage and do make a difference. I’d agree other things are at play as well but start with what is easy and go from there.

 

[slick]

Yep. No one ever said they didn’t.


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[Extrapale]

Agreed, it’s a multitude of factors. People just latch onto the predator thing and get so focused on that, some forget to take into account anything else.

Never once did I throw my arms up and say there’s nothing we can do about it. And I haven’t heard ODFW say that either.

All sorts of MDI money being tossed at habitat improvement but it’s not a quick fix, it’s a long term solution.

I haven’t had any deer in hand to see a body score. Pretty tough for someone to make an assumption without a rump fat measurement.

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I have heard it from ODFW.

They have every opportunity to have deer in hand to make the measurements and determinations.

MDI, isn't it over and done? Was anything learned from it?

From what I have heard they were supposed to try one thing per unit to see what worked. Then, they ended up trying several things per unit. In the end there were more questions than answers.

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[slick]

I have heard it from ODFW.

They have every opportunity to have deer in hand to make the measurements and determinations.

MDI, isn't it over and done? Was anything learned from it?

From what I have heard they were supposed to try one thing per unit to see what worked. Then, they ended up trying several things per unit. In the end there were more questions than answers.

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Well that’s discouraging and naive.

As far as their deer capture goes, my understanding is all of the deer collars are put out by the helicopter contract crew. Rump fat measurements need captive deer as a control from the original herds to establish a baseline. It would also likely require their state vet to run rump fat estimates with an ultrasound. So the logistics to get rump fat measurement isn’t as easy as 1, 2, 3. But if they put emphasis on it, they could prioritize it.

I know there’s still juniper cuts in the Warner unit that were associated with MDI, so I think its still ongoing there.

Honestly, that makes sense. I think just as continuing to kill cats, habitat improvement projects should continue as well. It’s one of those things I am adamant on pushing so people don’t fall into the one problem fix mindset.


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