Bikes in Wilderness Again

[Violent Hippie]

I am just sharing my opinion based off of my extensive experience ( The Northern Sierra Nevada mountain range from Mammoth to Sierraville / Downeiville , CA ) as well as some of my friends ( Former residents of Crested butte, Durango, Leadville, and Denver in Colorado ) experiences that have been shared and there is ALOT of places to mountain bike and strong PRO mountain bike organizations in said regions that have alot of support. I still havnt biked half the trails in my home region . Just sooo many. I have corresponded With Tom McClintock on email in reference to several public land bills and although I like many of his public opinions on many issues he SUCKS BAD in reference to public lands. He is a big proponent of selling public lands.

 

[CrzyTrekker]

There are already MASSIVE areas open to mountain biking. Everywhere outside congressionally-designated wilderness areas. Leave wilderness alone.

 

[Ftguides]

Wilderness is a special place, owned by everyone, so this is a tricky one. In a perfect world, I'd swap some wilderness open to mountain biking for some BLM closed to mtn biking. Mtn bikes and fat tire bikes kill a lot of mulies on the winter range (the additional human activity). Several top units in CO have been impacted by this.

I can understand why people want to use the wilderness for things they enjoy, including biking. Maybe the best solution is a wilderness solution for metering how much overall human usage an area gets, hiking, hunting, biking, etc... It's a tough management issue.

 

[Billinsd]

I am just sharing my opinion based off of my extensive experience ( The Northern Sierra Nevada mountain range from Mammoth to Sierraville / Downeiville , CA ) as well as some of my friends ( Former residents of Crested butte, Durango, Leadville, and Denver in Colorado ) experiences that have been shared and there is ALOT of places to mountain bike and strong PRO mountain bike organizations in said regions that have alot of support. I still havnt biked half the trails in my home region . Just sooo many. I have corresponded With Tom McClintock on email in reference to several public land bills and although I like many of his public opinions on many issues he SUCKS BAD in reference to public lands. He is a big proponent of selling public lands.

I agree with everything I've read that McClintock has said or spoken. Most of what I believe he is saying is the Feds are buying too much land and are mismanaging it. It sounds like he would like to go back to before all the wacky environmentalism, EPA, restrictions of the 70s, which sounds fantastic to me. Here is something I copied.

"As Congressman McClintock explains, cooperation between local governments and federal agencies is at an all time low, while hostilities continue to escalate. This is due in large part, to the fact that when federal agencies manage vast amounts of land and resources, state and local governments, and the citizens they represent, have little or no say about matters that effect their lives, jobs and communities; management policies, regulations, access, water, development, traffic, etc.

Americans in the West, where the BLM manages hundreds of millions of acres, should be alarmed by these quiet transfers of tens of thousands of acres out of productivity into the hands of a restrictive federal agencies. When citizens and local leaders have no knowledge of processes taking place under their noses, and no say in the resulting restrictions and limitations on economic development, culture and jobs, it’s a sure sign federal agencies have grown arrogant and dangerously unresponsive to the needs of the people whose lives they impact."

I totally agree with all that. Let the states and local people have more control, push the feds back...

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

Wilderness is a special place, owned by everyone, so this is a tricky one. In a perfect world, I'd swap some wilderness open to mountain biking for some BLM closed to mtn biking. Mtn bikes and fat tire bikes kill a lot of mulies on the winter range (the additional human activity). Several top units in CO have been impacted by this.

I can understand why people want to use the wilderness for things they enjoy, including biking. Maybe the best solution is a wilderness solution for metering how much overall human usage an area gets, hiking, hunting, biking, etc... It's a tough management issue.

That's happening in areas of the Maroon bells wilderness. They are beginning to regulate certain areas to lessen impact. This is a lot because of the backpackers and campers in the areas not doing their part to keep it clean. The first thing many did was complain that it's public land it should be open 100% all the time, the problem is the bad apples not taking care of the pristine forest. Now they are going to have to hire a few rangers just to patrol this area and check for permits and people following rules. The bad this takes away from me being able to call the forest service for assistance on maintaining the trails I outfit on. They like to come with us during trail maintenance to make sure we are doing it to their standards. I actually maintain 50+ miles of trails all public use not pirated or undocumented. Some trails are horse and hiking only others are horse, hiking and biking. There is one bicyclist that assists us in maintaining the trails, everyone else will leave a log across the trail or rock in the way, and we pay the USFS for the usage.

My point being that with these suggestions such as metering the area or posted earlier the speed limits for bikes is this is gonna require more man power to regulate, and I think we all know the USFS is already on a tight budget. The way it is now is working out pretty well and has for quite a few years. I am a set of eyes for the forest service on my trails that I use and try and help he USFS as well as the people on the trails. But they are so short staffed right now that it takes time to get trails cleared, with more regs in the wilderness that would make the time even longer.

 

[beachbunny]

mountain bikers have totally trashed my local park, where i used to camp out is now a trail and i used to "mountainbike" on a ten speed when the word was not word!

 

[mtwarden]

I own/ride a mtn bike quite a bit, but would never support opening Wilderness Areas to bikes- never

what a jackass idea- trail maintenance funding is already trending severely downward, lets tear the shit out of already neglected wilderness trails- brilliant!

we don't have a rep yet, but will let our Senators know my view if it makes it that far

hopefully BHA is on this

 

[mtnbiker208]

one thing I have came across is: when discussing wilderness, there is no right or wrong. just your opinion. Any way it is fun to discuss it.

 

[justinspicher]

I'm going on my second year as a trail maintenance guy for the FS here in SW Colorado. Of the 700ish miles of trails we have here in the district, only those in our wilderness area are not open to mountain bikers. That's roughly 100 miles.

What I do know is that horses tear up trails, so do bikes and so do hikers. However, I've never seen a biker carry trash out of anywhere like a I've seen hikers and horse user. Not wrong or right, just an observation.

No matter what is done, somebody will always be unhappy. I dont use a bike, I'm too lazy for that and would just rather walk. I see both sides but don't really have an opinion either way. I just ask that however you use the trail, be respectful to other users and don't make a mess unless your willing to clean it up.

Happy trails.

 

[Poser]

I just moved out West to Durango back in mid December. I did a lot of fatbiking on the trails this winter. I was rather surprised at how few bikes I saw out during the winter months. For example, I was hitting the Colorado Trail from the Durango trailhead 2-3 times a week when the snow was good and I believe I ran into another cyclists on one occasion (he even turned around because he didn't want to carry his bike over a fallen tree -next to runners, cyclists tend to be weakest athletes on the market....). I tried my best to be polite and respectful of runners (wearing cleats) and hikers, of which there were many including Two women with infants in Swamis a couple of miles back during a blizzard. I'd keep my eyes up, stop for them, pet their dogs, ask if their was anyone ahead of me. It was really no big deal and I actually enjoyed some rather long and interesting conversations with random people along the way. Those were quite the enjoyable outings. I kept my eyes up, I interacted with people and I was able to bomb sections of the trail without ever "almost" running over anyone.

Once spring hit, though, the skinnies came out in full force. I was climbing a steep Forrest service road that still had a decent amount of snow patches on it and three guys on F/S bikes came absolutely SCREAMING around a blind corner going the opposite direction. I'd estimate they were going 40 mph+, maybe pushing 50. No exaggeration. As I was in the middle of the road (seasonally closed to vehicles but open to bikes, snowmobiles and horses), I almost had a head on collision. That was my first encounter. I tried riding some popular trails behind my house that I had been hiking daily and riding when the conditions were good all winter and now I can neither climb nor downhill without some annoyed person on my ass. Lots of hikers with dogs on the trails, too. The whole experience was really a disaster. Many of the cyclists Are racing against clocks to check, compare and beat other times on the trails and don't seem to interested in stopping or slowing down for other cyclists, dogs, boulders with crash pads on their backs, etc. Bluetooth speakers seem to be popular, too. I'm sure some of that pressure can be attributed to the sudden spring and people itching to get out, but I'm not sure what to think about my experiences with it thus far. I am really interested in doing some bikepacking trips this summer, venturing into the backcountry and doing some scouting along the way. I love bikes and using them in interesting ways, but the hardcore Mtn Bike crowd seems to have a singular focus on speed and an uncompromising attitude on sharing the trails. Some Other user groups tend to spread out once they get to where they are going: climbers hit rocks, hunters hit glassing points, etc, but the trails themselves are often shared and used by all, frequently becoming choke points of use. At what point is there a balance between the casual dog walker and the Mtn biker trying to set a trail record?


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[Billinsd]

cyclists tend to be weakest athletes on the market....). I tried my best to be polite and respectful of runners (wearing cleats) and hikers, of which there were many including Two women with infants in Swamis a couple of miles back during a blizzard. I'd keep my eyes up, stop for them, pet their dogs, ask if their was anyone ahead of me. It was really no big deal and I actually enjoyed some rather long and interesting conversations with random people along the way. Those were quite the enjoyable outings. I kept my eyes up, I interacted with people and I was able to bomb sections of the trail without ever "almost" running over

Many of the cyclists Are racing against clocks to check, compare and beat other times on the trails and don't seem to interested in stopping or slowing down for other

I am really interested in doing some bikepacking trips this summer, venturing into the backcountry and doing some scouting along the way.

I love bikes and using them in interesting ways, but the hardcore Mtn Bike crowd seems to have a singular focus on speed and an uncompromising attitude on sharing the trails. Some Other user groups tend to spread out once they get to where they are going: climbers hit rocks, hunters hit glassing points, etc, but the trails themselves are often shared and used by all, frequently becoming choke points of use. At what point is there a balance between the casual dog walker and the Mtn biker trying to set a trail record?


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The clock they are running against is a Stava app. People compete against each other that way. Some guys get totally carried away with it. They supposedly yell STRAVA!!! and expect people to get the hell out of the way. Here in Southern California a lot of bikers have bells on their bike, which is a great idea. If more people were like you there wouldn't be any issues!! The problem is our society and people are so selfish and self centered. A guy going all out to be the fastest tIme on a section of trail on Strava, is being reckless and either other moutain bikers shame him into stopping it or enforcement cops writing him a ticket can stop it, which is difficult. There is no balance with an idiot like that. I hunted elk about 15 miles or so north of Durango near the Colorado trail years ago. We drive our truck on a jeep trail and traversed across towards the Colorado trail and hiked down to Durango. Beautiful country, and SO steep!!!

 

[Billinsd]

You could also contact Strava and tell them some guys are abusing their software. That happened where I used to ride and Strava blocked their software for certain stretches of trails that some were abusing. You can also contact local mtb clubs and they can get involved.

 

[Violent Hippie]

Here is a response from Mr Mclintock to one of the land transfer bills (cant remember exactly which one ) that he sent me. CA just recently closed some state parks due to funding issues as well. Same old thing IMO.

Thank you for your letter regarding the proposals to transfer federal lands to the states.
The federal government owns over two billion acres of land throughout the country. That ownership comes with a responsibility to manage that land in the interest of the public. The federal government is currently failing to properly maintain the land it already owns, with a good example being the rapidly deteriorating health of our national forests.



I have generally sought and supported opportunities to relinquish federal ownership of land within the United States. Returning land management responsibilities to states provides local governments a stronger voice, while coordinating operations with federal and state agencies. As Chair of the Subcommittee on Federal Lands, I have set three overarching objectives: to restore public access to the public lands, to restore sound management practices to the public lands, and to restore the federal government as a good neighbor to the communities directly impacted by public lands. I judge all proposals, including land transfers, under these criteria.



Again, thank you for contacting me. Please visit my website at Congressman Tom McClintock | Representing the 4th District of California to reach me regarding any issue that concerns you or your family.


Sincerely,

Tom

 

[Billinsd]

Thanks!! He makes no bones about what he wants to do and is a true blue conservative!! He does not like the forest circus or the blm at all, and neither do I. What I don't know is if the states will do a better job or not. It would not be hard to do a better job, that is for sure!! I like where he says he wants to restore public access to the public. I would be real upset if ALL that I cared about was that the forest circus and/or blm are doing a better job than the states ever could and I don't want any local control. That is a valid concern, but it is one of many of mine and my main concern is of an over reaching, over controlling federal government that is out of control. I am definitely pro States and pro smaller, weaker federal government. Your mileage may differ.....

 

[blackdog]

It sucks when you been pedaling in an area for 30 years and now you can't. An example would be the great burn on the Idaho Montana border. Another gem that has been lost to mountain biking is the boulder whiteclouds.

When was the last time you rode a mountain bike in the Great Burn? I outfitted in there for 7 years during the 90's and never once saw a bike in there. Always assumed it, like the Selway where we also worked, was illegal to do.

 

[Poser]

I just read that a Montana legislator introduced a bill that would require Non resident cyclists to buy a $25 annual sticker.


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[topher89]

Include mountain bikes and hiking gear in the pittman-robertson act before anything else.

Off track to this thread but this has been on my mind a lot. I buy a habitat stamp every year that helps Colorado buy and maintain land. I contribute $ to the Pittman-Robertson Act every year when I buy fishing and hunting stuff.

How do hikers/bikers/birders and others contribute?
My answer is that they don't but most of them would want to.

I would love to see one of our Reps get behind some legislation that either expands Pittman-Robertson or duplicates it. An excise tax on tents or sleeping bags or bikes or hiking boots would be a great way to aid and support conservation.

 

[DaveC]

Op-Ed: 5 Lies Being Used to Get Mountain Bikes in Wilderness | Outside Online

Outside has really gone downhill. Their fact checking and standards used to be second to none, apparently that gets in the way of click-bait garbage like this. Solomon usually does much better.

1: Half true but intentionally misleading. When you're trying to get your rep, or a rep, to sponsor legislation some times you can't pick and choose. Packrafters got raked over the coals for getting Cynthia Lummis (WY) to sponsor a bill about paddling in Yellowstone, but when that's who will listen that is who will listen. I'm not a McClintock fan when it comes to lands issues, but I don't believe the STC has deeper, more sinister motives either.

2: Outright crap. In Montana alone the Gallatin Crest and substantial sections of the Bitterroot have been shut down in the last 5 years, as well as some less traveled trails along the Rocky Mountain Front. All trails not in Wilderness, but subject to revised management rules. The Blackfoot-Clearwater Law sponsored by Jon Tester and currently pending will also close a few trails in the Monture Creek area.

3: Also outright crap. There is no legal precedent, none, defining mechanical transport as including bikes. There is also an extensive history of a few Wilderness areas being the site of extensive bike traffic before rules were changed. Insinuating that clarifying this issue would have been a logical priority for Congress is at best silly.

4: Fair point. STC seems to have gone off the rails with the newest version. Hard to see why, unless publicity is the intent of the whole project.

5: Probably the best argument for keeping bikes out of Wilderness is that in quite a few cases they'll make it feel smaller. But if this is a major selling point, lets have a conversation about banning or restricting stock, whose use does far more to open up Wilderness than any non-motorized "mechanical" device ever will. Law is about preserving the intangible, but it is not about sentimentality, so the discussion should be based around merits and not what irks Chris Solomon or anyone else.

 

[Billinsd]

Bravo!!!!

 

[Shooter19802003]

I have a hard time with this. It is hard saying it is the people's land. Yet folks are so quick to say which people can and can't use it. Apparently it is not the people's land if all people can't use it.