Blackhorn 209 and non-sabot bullets not an ethical combination

GCMan

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Blackhorn 209 and non-sabot bullets not an ethical combination (READ THIS !!!)

This guy seems likes an expert on this subject and is speaking from my own experiences with BH209 so far. I agree with him. Colorado should either change the rules to allow sabot bullets and BH209. Or strictly prohibit the use of BH209 on game in Colorado (my opinion). PLEASE READ HIS ARTCLE BEFORE COMMENTING!!!

My experience with BH209 and several types of non sabot bullets has been a series of failures (~10% failures) which could have ended up with an injured elk if I hadn't tested enough on the shooting range. At this point I will use Triple 777 FFFG on my Colorado Elk hunt this fall.

This article does a great job summing up my experiences on the target range and my conclusion of BH209.
 
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GMB54-120

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Ive shot a couple lbs of concials with BH209. Not a single hiccup but im using a well made plug and tight sealing wad under it. Maybe you need a better breech plug or help with sizing conicals correctly for use with BH209?

Colorado ML elk takes place during a warmer time of the season too. Sept. 10–18 is not all that cold.
 
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GCMan

GCMan

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I have not used a sealing plug yet and have used the 209 primers I could find - Cheddite primers. I had one failure with Cheddite primer (1 out of 6) and probably five failures with CCI inline muzzleloader primer ( 5 out of 30). I did get some RIO primers this week so I will try those with a sealing plug.

I will try Walters wads 50 cal 518 diameter (veggie wad).
At this point, I am just experimenting with BH209, I am not considering it as my hunting powder. I am frustrated with all the misfires but I hate giving up.

CVA Blackhorn Breech Plug 2010 and Newer Accura, Optima and Wolf - designed for BH209 is my inline breech plug. I am shooting a CVA Wolf.
 

Dark timber

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I have not used a sealing plug yet and have used the 209 primers I could find - Cheddite primers. I had one failure with Cheddite primer (1 out of 6) and probably five failures with CCI inline muzzleloader primer ( 5 out of 30). I did get some RIO primers this week so I will try those with a sealing plug.

I will try Walters wads 50 cal 518 diameter (veggie wad).
At this point, I am just experimenting with BH209, I am not considering it as my hunting powder. I am frustrated with all the misfires but I hate giving up.

CVA Blackhorn Breech Plug 2010 and Newer Accura, Optima and Wolf - designed for BH209 is my inline breech plug. I am shooting a CVA Wolf.
Use Fed 209A or CCI 209 mag primers if you don’t want misfires.
 

GMB54-120

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So did you ever use the 1/8" bit to clean the flash channel or try the o-rings like i mentioned before? Those Cheddite are VERY short so they dont seal well. And the CCIs you tried are the wrong ones. Western even says not to use them.
 
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GCMan

GCMan

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Use Fed 209A or CCI 209 mag primers if you don’t want misfires.
near impossible to find. I have five gun shops near me and none of them carry either of those for months and they have no idea when they will get some.
 
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GCMan

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So did you ever use the 1/8" bit to clean the flash channel or try the o-rings like i mentioned before? Those Cheddite are VERY short so they dont seal well. And the CCIs you tried are the wrong ones. Western even says not to use them.
did this. I have done all of the obvious stuff meticulously !!! All the rookie mistakes are behind me. Have not located the o-rings or looked. You have a link handy? Not using the muzzy primers any more.
 

ResearchinStuff

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I use thor bullets, blackhorn 209, and CCI 209 mag primers with the CVA blackhorn breech plug, it's worked flawlessly so far. I cheated a bit and bought the primers a decade ago when they actually existed, but I think if you're having problems it's an overall system problem, not just the powder.

Properly sized thor's seal up quite tight. experimenting with different lead conicals can also produce very tight fits.
 
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GCMan

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BH209 is like a "high maintenance" girlfriend. Fun in the beginning but starts wearing on you after a while. All the special crap you have to go thru and you start wondering if it is really worth your money and time to maintain the relationship.
 

5MilesBack

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You are correct. For your situation.......yes, it would appear to be unethical to try and use BH209 with your setup with what you have.

But that doesn't mean that the state should force everyone to use something else. Those are personal decisions.
 

swavescatter

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Sounds like a bad setup?

I'm new to muzzleloading but I'm setting my CVA LR-X 45 cal with an arrowhead large rifle primer conversion kit and hoping to try out Parker bullet to bore sized bullets with wads...
 
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GCMan

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I totally disagree. When it comes to ethically killing a game animal there has to a minimum standard of rules and there should be an acceptable level of reliability with the equipment you are using to take game. If CO decides there are enough reliability issues with BH209 then its in their right to disallow it.
 

GMB54-120

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did this. I have done all of the obvious stuff meticulously !!! All the rookie mistakes are behind me. Have not located the o-rings or looked. You have a link handy? Not using the muzzy primers any more.

Cheddites are just slightly weaker than a Win209 but like i said they are very short so they leak like mad. The ideal primer for the CVA plugs in the Nobel aka NSI 209-688 because they are fat and long.

R0j22ol.jpg
 
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5MilesBack

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I totally disagree. When it comes to ethically killing a game animal there has to a minimum standard of rules and there should be an acceptable level of reliability with the equipment you are using to take game. If CO decides there are enough reliability issues with BH209 then its in their right to disallow it.
Your flaw in logic is.......you're using your premises for your experiences to make a false conclusion. You're wrongly concluding (or assuming) that everyone that uses BH209 is having problems with it. That's like saying......."I have a problem with turning left on a solid green light......so they should ban solid green lights and only use green arrow lights". I realize that is how society seems to operate these days, "one person has a problem with that so they punish everyone in the process", but that's not how things should operate.

The way things should operate is exactly what you have experienced. YOU can't seem to get the combo to work......so YOU should try something else until it does work for you. This is the same for "bowhunters wearing orange during the ML overlap season". Just because one person thinks they should, doesn't mean that everyone should have to abide by a small minority of folks thinking.......especially when those folks aren't even involved with the activity. Personal responsibility.........a dying concept these days.
 
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GCMan

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Your flaw in logic is.......you're using your premises for your experiences to make a false conclusion. You're wrongly concluding (or assuming) that everyone that uses BH209 is having problems with it. That's like saying......."I have a problem with turning left on a solid green light......so they should ban solid green lights and only use green arrow lights". I realize that is how society seems to operate these days, "one person has a problem with that so they punish everyone in the process", but that's not how things should operate.

The way things should operate is exactly what you have experienced. YOU can't seem to get the combo to work......so YOU should try something else until it does work for you. This is the same for "bowhunters wearing orange during the ML overlap season". Just because one person thinks they should, doesn't mean that everyone should have to abide by a small minority of folks thinking.......especially when those folks aren't even involved with the activity. Personal responsibility.........a dying concept these days.
Totally agree. Case study of 1 is crap - whether it's my bad experience with BH209 or someone's great experience with the stuff. That said, I can't and won't use it until I can get 100% reliability out of it. There are so many variables. Could be my muzzleloader that's not compatible. I'm not the only one who have experienced these "issues". I am just giving you the facts to my experience.
 

GMB54-120

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I'm not the only one who have experienced these "issues".
No you are not but the vast majority are USER error. You would not believe how many times ive told people exactly how to clean the plug and they still didnt do it right. The info is right there on Western's Blackhorn209 website. All they had to do was look instead of blaming the powder.

If any carbon left in the channel gets contaminated by a swabbing solutions there is a huge chance it POOFS. Why so many still insist on swabbing with BH209 is a mystery to me. OR using a solvent with a pipe cleaner and swearing the plug is clean.

How is it i can have a 100% success rate shooting soft lead conicals or easy loading sized jacketed bullets (land riders) with a standard Win209 primer? Yet someone with a BH209 plug and mag primers fails even with a Powerbelt?...........Ive seen it countless times and its almost always USER error.
 
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jjohnsonElknewbie

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Been using BH for at least 10 years, with saboted bullets mind you. I've never had a misfire with any load and even after keeping it loaded for several weeks. BH is the $hit IMO and I won't ever change back to 777 or other pellets.
 
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