Bomb Proof insert/outsert. Opinions??

[Beendare]

I'm curious, what are you going to have into those setups for a dozen arrows inc BH?

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[MattB]

I just picked up a dozen of the Victory R.I.P TKO shafts in .300 spine they are the same build as the grizzly stik shafts I have that victory builds but less gpi. I think these are going to be extremely strong shafts.

Question: why do you think less gpi/material will make for an extremely strong shaft?

Ashby has arrow integrity as the #1 factor for penetration but I always find it surprising that this is where guys seem to skimp trying to get the FOC up - which BTW is not #1 on the list. I have friends who tried lighter gpi arrows to try to get higher FOC and lost game due to shaft breakage on game. They outsmarted themselves I suppose.

 

[aggieland]

Cost on the setups will be pretty high per arrow but I don't own a boat, etc so this is what I spend $ on..

As far as durability these shafts appear to be a very solid shaft. The bow shop owner and I handled these an the black eagle Rampage and both agreed these were better quailty.. I decided I didn't want to get extremely heavy on this particular built.

 

[sneaky]

I've shot both the MFX's and the Axis trad...and I also preferred the MFX...though I don't think there is that much of a difference.

Have you tried the Beman Centershot? Those are cheaper...by a long shot....and though 6mm they are the best $$ value I've found.....I'm moving to those in my recurve.

The best tip I can give is to mill the ends of all of these carbons on a jig. I posted this in the Archery section....but I found a big difference in not only getting and keeping BH's straight but also it makes the arrow more durable.

View attachment 180866

This is a cell phone pic of the LH arrow milled on 320 sandpaper and the RH one right off the saw. If you saw the ends under higher magnification you would be shocked how ragged that arrow off the saw really is- its terrible. Even if you use an insert that goes right to the end, that tight seating makes a difference IME.

I've had shop guys tell me, "I spin them" on the saw and they are fine. BS, look at the ends in a microscope and you will see how bad they really are.

Yes, I've shot the Centershots. They're ok, but far from my first choice. The PSE X Weaves are a much more durable shaft, just hard to find and not offered in a woodgrain lol. I tried to drill that into every customer's head that I built arrows for... square the ends, BOTH ends. I did it every time, then when they compared how they shot to other arrows they had they could see the difference. It doesn't add much time to the building process but it's worth every second on the spinner.

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[sneaky]

I just picked up a dozen of the Victory R.I.P TKO shafts in .300 spine they are the same build as the grizzly stik shafts I have that victory builds but less gpi. I think these are going to be extremely strong shafts. I also am going to be using the 100 grain HIT inserts and 25g collars from iron will. Then depending on tune etc using the 225 or 250 grain iron will broadheads. Should be a total arrow weight around 620-650 with at least 26% foc out of a 65# centaur longbow.
I am also "FOR FUN" setting up some shafts with the 625 grain bishop s7 head.. surprisingly enough when I shoot this current arrow I was playing with out of a 58 or 65# centaur both shot straight bare shaft.. that arrow is a vap 340 cut down to roughly 28" with a firenock outsert and the bishop 625 grain fieldtip. I will say when you shoot a new bag target inside with that big ass head it makes a serious boom.

The grizzlystik arrows are tapered shafts if they are the Momentum TDTs. That's what makes them so expensive. If I was looking for tapered shafts I'd be getting some PTP shafts from Arrow Dynamics, nitrostinger.com, made in the States and standard components fit. I've shot their woodgrain tapered shafts before as well, along with the tapered shafts from Quest arrows. Tapered shafts are extremely forgiving of different point weights and I've had very good results with them. Victory makes a good arrow as well, they just need to offer bare shafts in longer lengths so long draw guys can actually trim both ends and tune by reducing length instead of hoping the length they offer works. That's been the only sticking point with me shooting them out of my trad setups, broadhead to front of fingers clearance.

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[milunchbox]

I've shot Ethics archery insert and collar system on everything, compound and trad. It is insanely durable and doesn't cost that much, normally about $40.

 

[Beendare]

I've seen the same thing Matt mentioned above using low GPI shafts....guys shooting for Ashby's magical high FOC with low GPI arrows and they aren't durable at all...on top of the other problems they had following that advice. Personally, using low GPI for 3d, I broke so many arrows in the first few weeks it was a joke.

Yes, I've shot the Centershots. They're ok, but far from my first choice. The PSE X Weaves are a much more durable shaft, just hard to find and not offered in a woodgrain lol. I tried to drill that into every customer's head that I built arrows for... square the ends, BOTH ends. I did it every time, then when they compared how they shot to other arrows they had they could see the difference. It doesn't add much time to the building process but it's worth every second on the spinner.

Great post.^
It was an eye opener for me when I started tuning those carbons on a jig to square the ends....straighter Broadheads AND more durable arrows.

It used to be I would shoot a BH into a foam target and then it wouldn't spin.One shot and out of whack, WTF? Now I can shoot the same BH arrow multiple times into foam and it spins perfect. The seating of these BH's is critical.

I've only shot a couple hogs with the Centershots.....so the jury is still out on them for me. They see pretty durable but I just don't have the track record of over a hundred animals with the Axis [mostly compound]

I shot the PSE X weaves in Australia years ago and killed a bunch of hogs and a Water buff- they seemed like good arrows.

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[SkunkCabbage]

Initially tried out elk river’s aluminum footer with Easton brass inserts. I was surprised how well the aluminum footer did but I still expanded it a bit but totally saved a few shafts. I broke one at the back of a hit insert once on a bad shot hitting a rock.

I’m trying out the iron will steel hit inserts and their steel footers. Pricy but I think they are a step up of toughness over what I previously ran. No issues blowing though a black bear a few weeks back.

 

[oldgoat]

I've shot both the MFX's and the Axis trad...and I also preferred the MFX...though I don't think there is that much of a difference.

Have you tried the Beman Centershot? Those are cheaper...by a long shot....and though 6mm they are the best $$ value I've found.....I'm moving to those in my recurve.

The best tip I can give is to mill the ends of all of these carbons on a jig. I posted this in the Archery section....but I found a big difference in not only getting and keeping BH's straight but also it makes the arrow more durable.

View attachment 180866

This is a cell phone pic of the LH arrow milled on 320 sandpaper and the RH one right off the saw. If you saw the ends under higher magnification you would be shocked how ragged that arrow off the saw really is- its terrible. Even if you use an insert that goes right to the end, that tight seating makes a difference IME.

I've had shop guys tell me, "I spin them" on the saw and they are fine. BS, look at the ends in a microscope and you will see how bad they really are.

What kind of saw are you using to cut your arrows? Cause I just cut a couple on my saw and they look like the arrows after you mill yours!

 

[Beendare]

What kind of saw are you using to cut your arrows? Cause I just cut a couple on my saw and they look like the arrows after you mill yours!

I use a cheap saw....but them spin the ends on 320 sandpaper and alternate with the chamfer stone if I need a chamfer.

In my experience now; I wouldn't shoot an arrow right off the saw, that BH seating is too critical.

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[oldgoat]

I use a cheap saw....but them spin the ends on 320 sandpaper and alternate with the chamfer stone if I need a chamfer.

In my experience now; I wouldn't shoot an arrow right off the saw, that BH seating is too critical.

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I use a Weston, middle of the road I guess and I have no issues, even have one of those g5 arrow things that you use to clean up the end of the arrow, it basically doesn't do anything because the arrows are true. My photo isn't as clear as yours but arrow is clean and square

 

[gordonka12]

I shoot Day Six arrows with the stainless steel outsert/insert epoxied in. It is absolutely indestructible.

 

[LostArra]

Is arrow integrity a common issue when hitting animals? I've never used any of these "systems" to beef up my carbon arrow shafts other than an epoxied brass insert for some weight and I've never had an arrow failure while hunting and that includes cedar arrows and I don't use expensive carbons. I make a solid carbon arrow with square and sanded cuts. My points spin true but I don't do anything else.

Sure, I've had shafts break in half if I didn't get a complete pass thru on an animal but an insert/outsert system won't prevent that and I'll live with a broken shaft if the animal is dead.

 

[sneaky]

There is no such thing as an indestructible arrow. They'll all break eventually. I've seen broken arrows from every manufacturer. If I'm stump shooting I'll use a footer, but for an animal they aren't necessary. A good solid BH does the trick. A footer isn't going to punch through bone on its own.

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[LostArra]

There is no such thing as an indestructible arrow. They'll all break eventually. I've seen broken arrows from every manufacturer. If I'm stump shooting I'll use a footer, but for an animal they aren't necessary. A good solid BH does the trick. A footer isn't going to punch through bone on its own.

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All bets are off if you are stump shooting or rabbit hunting.

 

[SkunkCabbage]

Ordered a set of Ti inserts and Ti Collars from iron will for my arrow build for my new APA

 

[justin davis]

I like the ethics outserts. Been using them on FMJ Injexion arrows. They seem built well and have held up well. I have been a few in really hard hits to metal or rocks. But I found that if they bend I can just replace the outsert and the whole arrow isn’t ruined.

Anyone try day six outserts?

 

[TaterTot]

I had a friend of mine print me an arrow squaring device on his 3d printer, cost me 2 bucks. I put a piece of sand paper in the end and give em a few spins. The difference is night and day. I wouldnt build arrows without it now.