Boot leather quality

[peterk123]

Continue to read about quality hunting boots, but I am having a hard time figuring out exactly the type of leather the manufacturers are using. Full grain is the best of the best of the leathers, but I am a bit confused if that is what one wants in a boot. I am seeing some mixed information about its waterproofness (shocking that I get conflicting info on the internet; shock I say). But there is a consensus regarding its wear resistance. It also absorbs the oils and waxes used to condition the leather.

Top grain is next in line. Basically full grain but with a layer sanded off so it looks better. Again, getting mixed info on the waterproof thing. But at the end of the day it is high quality leather, but not quite as good as full grain. It will not absorb the wax or oils as well (or at all) because it is polished, and it will tend to get surface cracking over time.

Then there is nubuck. I am not sure if that is a type of top or full. I am going to assume top, since it must be buffed or sanded.
Then there is genuine leather. Basically, forget about it. Funny thing is I read a review of a Kenetrek boot that said it was the best boot out there because it was made from genuine leather. The author obviously did not know what genuine leather grade really was. But it just proves that accurate information is hard to find.

I have been on the Schnees website and I cannot find much info regarding their leathers. One of their guide boots actually mentioned it was made from full grain, as was there newest lightweight boot, I believe. Other than that I am just not sure.

So, do all the high end manufacturers, crispi, schnees, lowa, kenetrek, etc. use full grain, top grain, or a mix? And does it matter at the end of the day?

Thx

Pete

 

[bonepoint]

Most seem to use nubuck, from what I have seen. It seems that I have seen that it a mid grade leather and good enough.

The best leather uppers I have had on my boots is the Scarpa SL, which states the leather is "2.7mm Sherpa HS12 Leather". The factory leather treatment seems to matter, too. These Scarpas are not a gore-tex waterproof boot, but they are more waterproof than some gore-tex boots I have owned. I believe it is in the treatment, which also includes a disclaimer that it has 3 or 4 chemicals known to cause cancer in the state of California

I love my Hanwag Alverstone IIs, but they are made from a cheaper suede leather upper. They are plenty enough abrasion resistant, but very poor for water resistance. Great early season, lightweight, breathable boot, though.

With most of my boots the soles tend to wear out before the uppers, so I am not sure whether it would be worth it to pay for the very best leather anyway, unless you planned on resoling.

 

[BRTreedogs]

So what i have found is because of epa restrictions glue has gone way down hill.

And just treating the leather with something that sheds water is the best bet.
I've found and boots that let water sit in them your gonna get wet.
And I've tried 10 plus brands.

 

[zion zig zag]

Kenetrek says (for the mountain extreme): 2.8mm thick premium full grain leather uppers with one piece vamp construction with no seams down the tongue for abrasion resistance and waterproofness

 

[Rokwiia]

This is an excellent topic. I recently bought a pair of the Schnee Timberline. Can't find a description of the leather but would be shocked if it wasn't full-grain leather, smooth side out. I've been looking at their Kestrel which they specifically say is, "full-grain, rough-out leather".

https://schnees.com/kestrel/

 

[TomJoad]

So, do all the high end manufacturers, crispi, schnees, lowa, kenetrek, etc. use full grain, top grain, or a mix? And does it matter at the end of the day

You are basically on the right track here. Full grain leather is indeed unmodified grain, top grain is sanded/polished and then embossed with a new grain pattern, suede/nubuck is the bottom face of the hide. Cow hides are very thick the tops and bottoms can be split and usually several thickness of material can be split off between these. This is usually given a PU skin and is labeled as “split leather” and is real cheap garbage. Everything but the split leather is indeed “genuine leather”.

so in general you are correct that full grain is the best but that’s only a small part of the story. The quality of the hide, type of hide (animal) and tanning process dramatically impact quality as well as appropriate use. This can start to get super complicated but fir footwear you are mostly looking at cow and horse leathers and chrome tanning vs veg tanning. Nothing is waterproof with leather. You can imbed DWR compounds in it which last for a while or sew in goretex membrane under it but at the end of the day it’s a sponge: a highly flexible and abrasion resistant sponge.

To better separate the wheat from the chaff look for companies using reputable tanneries rather than trying to learn and understand a leather spec itself. Tanneries like Perwanger: the gold standard for performance mountaineering are what you want to look for. If they are listing their tannery partners and the leather they are using it’s maybe something they aren’t too proud of.

 

[nphunter]

The biggest thing I’ve found to help with water resistance is how stiff a boot is. Most boots flex in the forefoot causing a hydraulic effect on the front of the tongue or laces which pushes water through the leather and waterproof liner. The stiffer the boot them less this happens and the more your foot stays dry.
I’ve had good luck with full leather and gortex lined boots as long as I keep them treated well.

 

[Schnee's]

...So, do all the high end manufacturers, crispi, schnees, lowa, kenetrek, etc. use full grain, top grain, or a mix? And does it matter at the end of the day?

Thx

Pete

Hi there. I'd be happy to chime in here. We only sell direct for a few reason, one of them being we can use extremely high quality Italian leathers to build our boots.

Our Pac boots are all made from the same leather. It is all hand selected, oil tanned, top-grain leathers. We definitely don't skimp on our pac boot leathers...almost feel bad scuffing the stuff up out in the field.. haha

On our mountain boots, they all use the best Top-Grain leathers we can get our hands on. The color, finish, smooth out and rough out will all vary, but it is all Top-Grain leather.

As for water proofness and leather-soak. We like to use waxed leathers, like on our Granites, Absaroka, and divide mid. Thus waked leather sheds water really well and take a really long time to "soak" through. For our other boots like the Beartooths, Missions, Timberlines, etc.. we always recommend using NikWax. It basically accomplishes the same thing. Impregnating the leather with wax to stop soak and help water bead off. Then there is the membrane, except for the Beartooth Classic, all of our feature the 100% waterproof Sympatex membrane. It has been a really solid membrane for us!

Hope this helps
- Matt

 

[peterk123]

@Schnee's thank you for that. I'm in Bozeman in about three weeks for a two week vacation. My wife and I will be visiting you guys. I think both of us are going to be looking at boots for our future mountain adventures. Pete

 

[Schnee's]

@Schnee's thank you for that. I'm in Bozeman in about three weeks for a two week vacation. My wife and I will be visiting you guys. I think both of us are going to be looking at boots for our future mountain adventures. Pete

No problem at all! I love nerding out on leather with people!

We'll see you soon!

 

[Rokwiia]

@Schnee's

Matt you mentioned above that your Mountain Boots use the "Top-Grain" leathers. The description of the Kestrel at your website says, "The upper is constructed from mountain proven, full grain, rough-out leather, and high performance stretch Schoeller™ fabric."

That clearly says it is full-grain leather. Can you clarify whether the Kestrel is top grain or full grain? Are any of the Mountain Boots full grain?